Master cylinder or slave cylinder?? Help needed!

[boneezy]

So I finished installing a brand new Toyota clutch master cylinder (after taking out the aftermarket piece I bought online which cost half the price of Toyota's) ...bled the system yet there is no shred of tension in the clutch pedal. Could it be my slave? If a slave cylinder is defective, would that be the cause of my master cylinder not providing tension in my clutch pedal?

But,

When I went to toyota to have them bleed my aftermarket master and flush my a/c (get out the stinkyness, it really works!) they said it could be the slave that is not allowing the master to take in fluid blah blah, so I have them do the slave cylinder since maybe it is broke and my master cylinder is brand new... after STILL NOT fixing it with a new slave they figure its the aftermarket master... So I bite the bullet , pay $134.xx after taxes and put in the master myself, now there is ZERO tension... I remember after putting in the cheaper master there was tension right away without bleeding the clutch line. Helpful input from anybody would really ease some of the stress I'm having with my car.. this thing breaking down the week before finals AND I got work is NOT cool. haha thanks guys.

[ozone]

A few things could be wrong.

First, did you make sure to adjust the pushrod in the master cylinder. I haven't done this on the Solara, so my knowledge is generic here, but usually the pedal exerts force on a pushrod, which pushes into the clutch master cylinder, which in turn exerts force on the fluid. On the slave cylinder all of this is reversed, right. So if the pushrod doesn't exert force on the cylinder inside the master clutch cylinder, when the pedal is engaged, then nothing happens. On my Corolla's brake master cylinder, there is a nut that has to be loosened, then the rod is turned (to extend it to the right distance) and the nut is then tightened. I kind of doubt this is the problem because I think even at its shortest, it would still exert force on the master cylinder, but it's possible, especially if you were given the wrong clutch master cylinder.

I think the most likely problem is that either there is too much air in the system, so all you are doing is compressing the air, or there is a leak. You should be able to see a leak. Just follow the line from the clutch cylinder all the way to the slave cylinder. Also, when you bleed the clutch line, make sure the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder doesn't get too low, or you might suck in some air and have to start the process all over again.

Another possibility (again, not exactly familiar with the Solara setup) is at the slave cylinder there is a metal rod that goes from the slave cylinder to the shift fork. It's what actually touches the fork. This little metal rod is often only held in place by the pressure exerted by the slave cylinder and the little rubber boot that protects it. If the pressure is released, like when you do a master cylinder replacement, I've never seen it happen, but it's possible the metal rod could fall out, especially if the rubber boot is damaged.

You should locate the slave cylinder and have a friend step on the clutch while you observe it's movement or lack thereof. If the shift fork is moved by the slave cylinder say about 3/4 of an inch, the problem is in the tranny. If the slave cylinder (and therefore the shift fork) doesn't move at all, the problem is between the slave cylinder and your foot (assuming the slave cylinder isn't covered in fluid that has leaked out). Work your way backward toward the pedal. Check for fluid leakage on the entire run of clutch line. If that's good and you think the master cylinder is the right one and working properly, then check the clutch pedal assembly and make sure nothing came loose, bent or fell out.

Do you still have your old master cylinder to compare dimensionally to the new one? Maybe they just keep giving you the wrong master cylinder.

Good luck.

[boneezy]

damn. that was perfect! im really suspecting the slave now that youve detailed it, so Ill definitely follow your advice since Im pretty sure most clutch pedal assemblies are virtually the same since they work on the same principle. But I think im good though with the fluid level because I havent driven my car since today's post and when I checked the fluid this morning there was no change in level so Im pretty sure there is no leak.

Dimensionally, the master is spot on, im certain its the right part and the pushrod was working fine. I just really do hope its a ton of air thats in the line.. but can that happen? Where theres so much air in the line that it makes the pedal completely useless? Where theres exactly zero tension or return from the pedal? I would think that even with that much air, theres still fluid making its way into the system no? That theres just gaps in the line which weakens the pressure. Could this be my case?

Either way Im going to have it bled tomorrow morning and I pray that itll be fixed, because shifting without a clutch, having to turn my car off during stops and turn it back on in gear is a pain and embarrassing. Damn why is this happening to me?? haha

[ozone]

If you have air in the line it is very possible that the clutch will not move at all. Be careful when you bleed it too, the master clutch reservoir is much smaller than the brake one and it doesn't take too many pumps before the level drops. In fact, on my Corolla, I belive my wife can only depress the pedal twice before I have to add fluid again.

Good luck and be sure to post the results so we can all learn from it.

[boneezy]

Solution:

AIR. A sh!t load of it too, it took 20 pumps and 4 turns of the wrench to get it all out...

Furthermore,
Damn those toyota "service techs", all they had to do the first time was bleed my clutch, but NOPE, they want you the consumer to drop 2 bills for a new "slave cylinder"....then later on.. "most likely its your master cylinder too thats not allowing the slave cylinder do its job in assisting the master to hold fluid blah blah blah.. thats gonna cost you $300 for parts and labor" I spent 134 on a master cylinder and then went to some mexican tire place and had them bleed it for me for 20 bucks.. Im very happy to have my car running normally again.. and Im very happy that I didnt jump the gun and be OKAY heres 500 dollars, fix it. so for all you guys out there that arent quite savvy or have more than decent know-how when it comes to fixing your car (like me), dont have any franchised place work on your car! if at all, just DIY... which Im sure pretty much everybody agrees with, its just sad how those places, especially toyota (a place where you think your car would be safe since we're all toyota) try to rip you off.

Many thanks to Ozone.