ABS scary in snow and ice......

[Toyota_Todd]

I always heard that the word ABS could be broken down as follows. Ability to Brake and Steer. Too bad it seems to concentrate on the steering when I am just trying to stop (Usually in a straight line!!!). I realize that in theory that it is supposed to help, but I am talking about the real world. For instance on one of the routes home, there is a set of RR tracks that are close to the end of the road where you must stop at a stop sign. On all of my non ABS cars I have never had this problem, and yes I drive all of them aggressively. The Celica and Solara will both kick on the ABS if you start to brake over the (dry) rough tracks which will keep the car from stopping quickly and put you in the middle of the intersection. The non abs car just slow down over the (dry) tracks and no drama. I think that over all that it is a good sytem, its just got some limits for those of us who drive aggressive. All of the people that I know in SCCA that drive newer models disable the ABS system. I plan to disable mine soon and do some comparison panic stops.

[eyedea]

I am yet to see anyone From califonia comment on this post......... wait, i just did. I might as well go ahead and say it..Aint no snow in cali..so pass the comments to the rest or you

[ToyGuy]

Interesting thread.

Jay believes in the infallibility of ABS systems in all situations. I'm not convinced and apparently others feel the same. Don't get me wrong, I'm big on science, technology, data, etc......and ABS allows control and quick stopping in skidding situations, but it really feels at times that if 1 wheel slips a bit and the ABS kicks in it takes braking force away from the other wheels while it gets traction back to the 1 skidding wheel, lengthening stopping distance. There's a railroad crossing here that you take at an angle while turning and sometimes you have to brake. When it's wet the front tire will slip just that wee bit as they cross the rail and that can kick the ABS on. It will continue to buzz until you either let off and come back on the brake or until you stop, and no matter how hard you push on the pedal it won't stop harder and this is on good pavement that should allow good traction.
Not saying ABS is bad, just that it may not be the best thing in every situation. If your car has it go to a parking lot and play with it and learn how it works and what it feels like so you aren't surprised. Back when ABS first came out it was causing accidents because when drivers felt it for the first time in an emergency situation they were letting off of the brakes.....big TV show about it

[Jay]

I remember watching that TV show.. I think it was 20/20...

You know I am not so certain about this, but I think the ABS is independent on all wheels. So if one wheel kicks in it doesn't turn on ABS on all of them.

I guess I am a firm believer of the ABS.. I never had a problem with it.

For those new guys to this forum, I used to have S/Ced 95 Mustang GT Convertible, so you don't have to separate yourselves to "aggressive driver" category. I've done plenty of aggressive driving + cornering. I was never bothered by ABS even when hard braking.

Here are my experience with cars that I had without ABS.

87 Tarus -> skid all the way to the in coming car.

87 Blazer 4X4 -> Spun around 3 separate times when applied brake going 30+ mph.

I live in midwest area, so I see plenty of snow...

[Yanks0114]

ABS does kick in when you hit a bump and you are trying to brake but thats because you could very easily launch into a skid without abs. When you hit a bump your wheels loose contact and therefore are no long braking. They lock up and when you hit the ground you could skid forever. ABS definately helps

[NASTY]

They lock up and when you hit the ground you could skid forever.

well i dont know about skidding forever...

You know I am not so certain about this, but I think the ABS is independent on all wheels. So if one wheel kicks in it doesn't turn on ABS on all of them.

hmm, im curious about this too. i think its true for some cars, but not sure about ours...flip?

[Yanks0114]

They lock up and when you hit the ground you could skid forever.

well i dont know about skidding forever...

LOL it'll feel like that when you are still sliding and there are cars in front of you. Not a good thing

[Missay]

i hate that feeling of loosing control..i almost rear ended someone going 30mph b/c my abs kicked in..i braked w/ plenty of time too. there was construction on the road, so only one side could get by and it was right where you go over a hill, so it was kind blind..as soon as i dipped down the guy in front of me stopped to let the guy coming towards us go and i felt like i was scrapping the entire front end across the ground, kareeming (sp?) towards him.

Missay, with all due respect, you would have hit the car without ABS.

you're right..i would have hit him abs or no abs...this specific situtation tho i didn't need the abs. i wasn't speeding, wasn't driving agressively, wasn't slamming on the brakes..i was stopping the same way you stop at a red light, or a stop sign...so it's not like i would have hit him, i was braking w/ lots of distance.

i wouldn't wanna get rid of abs, it just that it's like airbags, sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad

[Gunman]

man you guys drive to fast, ive yet to have the abs kickin, you guys are a bunch of animals

[Yanks0114]

man you guys drive to fast, ive yet to have the abs kickin, you guys are a bunch of animals

You don't need to driving fast for it to kick in, its more the urgency in which you brake and the road surface

[Missay]

i've noticed that the abs only comes on for me when i apply hard pressure to the brake (not slamming on the brakes, but pushing it harder than casual driving)...when i brake on train tracks, a downward slope, or unsmooth pavement...and the obvious braking when going to fast

[Fairlite]

I always heard that the word ABS could be broken down as follows. Ability to Brake and Steer. Too bad it seems to concentrate on the steering when I am just trying to stop (Usually in a straight line!!!). I realize that in theory that it is supposed to help, but I am talking about the real world. For instance on one of the routes home, there is a set of RR tracks that are close to the end of the road where you must stop at a stop sign. On all of my non ABS cars I have never had this problem, and yes I drive all of them aggressively. The Celica and Solara will both kick on the ABS if you start to brake over the (dry) rough tracks which will keep the car from stopping quickly and put you in the middle of the intersection. The non abs car just slow down over the (dry) tracks and no drama. I think that over all that it is a good sytem, its just got some limits for those of us who drive aggressive. All of the people that I know in SCCA that drive newer models disable the ABS system. I plan to disable mine soon and do some comparison panic stops.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but you shouldn't be driving over train tracks aggressively anyhow.

[Guest]

All of the people that I know in SCCA that drive newer models disable the ABS system. I plan to disable mine soon and do some comparison panic stops.

professionals disable ABS, because they are professionals and know how to control their skidding in turns and use it as a benefit. professionals pump their brakes in panic stops. ABS pumps it much faster. professionals take longer to stop in ABS cars than your average daily driver (saw it on some show like dateline or something), because they are used to pumping the brakes. if you feel you are a professional, then disable your ABS. Since you are even asking about it, I would guess you are not a professional. Do not disable your ABS.

I also saw this on Datleine or something, where the lady newsperson got to test out ABS vs. disabled ABS. This was on TV like only a few weeks ago. When you're driving along with two wheels on dry pavement and two wheels on wet pavement, then slam on the brakes, your car will spin out of control. With ABS, you're able to maintain control and walk away safely. Do not disable your ABS (unless of course, you are a professional).

You know I am not so certain about this, but I think the ABS is independent on all wheels. So if one wheel kicks in it doesn't turn on ABS on all of them.

I'm not certain either, but I think NASTY is right. ABS is only independant on certain vehicles. So I would agree that maybe ABS sucks when speeding and slamming on the brakes over train tracks. Listen to fairlite, and slow down.

[Toyota_Todd]

Dear no name Guest,

I am by no means a professional!!! But I do race in the local FWR SCCA and won the Rookie of the year (6th in points out of 70 some drivers) in my region four years ago with the Celica. I just thought that of all the people on this board there may be some enthusiasts that may have done this. I realize that I may drive closer to the edge than the majority and that others may not even be able to imagine the feeling that the car has in these circumstances. Lets put this into a whole new perspective. My wife is now insisting that I disable the ABS on the Solara also. She races also, and has never cracked up her '93 Camry SE that is not ABS equipped. For normal driving and conditions, I will agree that you probably can't beat ABS. I am just trying to get across that there are pros and cons to the system. As far as slowing down, that won't happen because I live my life a quarter mile at a time. LOL. By the way, I could easliy have figured out the ABS on my own or with the help of one of the 15 Toyota techs. Being that I have worked in Toyota dealerships for over 14 years and have a Master Certified Toyota Tech for a little brother. It is not a problem. See you in my rear view.......

Hmmm. Wasn't it Dateline that put the explosives near the gas tanks on the Chevy pickups to make them explode on impact? I wonder?

[ToyGuy]

I don't know about Toyota Todd but my experience with ABS and the railroad crossing is at normal driving speeds. It seems like there are some conditions that confuse ABS in everyday driving situations. I didn't explain clearly enough I guess..crossing RR tracks at normal speed and applying the brakes normally at times kicks the ABS on. (tracks wet, cold, dew?) Road conditions normal. I've had the same experience as Todd ending up IN the intersection instead of stopping where I should have. I'd like to see the results of a test where a car goes over a slick spot then back onto dry pavement under braking.

I think that there may be rear-ender accidents at low speeds in trade for the high speed panic situation Ability to Brake and Steer.