Catty Con

[P Funky]

So my CEL came on, and after a $90 diagnostic fee I found out my catalytic converter is "failing".

Dealer wanted almost 800 to replace it, I have another mechanic friend of my dad's in NJ who'll do it for $450.

My operating assumption is that I don't have to replace it until it's time for inspection... any advice on how to do this cheaply but well?

[RichD978]

yea.... my advice is to go to autozone next time you have a CEL and save $90 on the diagnostic fee


if it is failing, does that mean you have to get a new catback exhaust? cause you can get a complete stainless steel greddy evo2 exhaust for $515 shipped

[P Funky]

Uhhh... hmmm- first, Autozone does free diagnostic? That's hot- very, very hot.

Second- what's a catback exhaust? I haven't made any mods to my exhaust or anything. All the guy in the service part told me was that it's failing, it's, I think, coming apart(?) on the inside, and so my emissions won't pass inspection.

What would getting a new exhaust do for me, and how does that help me with the converter? (Sorry, I'm completely ignorant on this stuff)

[SPF 0]

Just thinking out, how old is your car? My understanding is that the emission controls systems were warranted for 10 years.

Of course I could be wrong.

[P Funky]

It's a 2000, just turned 110,000 miles today. I bought it used.

[1st Gen Sol]

If you got with a full cat-back exhaust system, your still gonna have to get a catalytic converter because the exhaust system doesn't come with one.

You should check the Magnafolw website and just get an aftermarket cat, it'll work just as good.
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/02converters.asp

Since your in the market for a new cat., you should check out this thread on Toyota Nation on a set of headers from Ripp Mod's. There not including the cat, but you'll wanna run a after market cat with there headers anyways......or you can perhaps get one from somebody that doesn't need theres nomore.
http://toyotanation.com/forum/showthrea ... ge=8&pp=15

[Hsakuragi]

My suggestion is to change it asap, if the cat is really dying, your car will feel sluggish, feels funny and the worst case will fudge up ur transmission

[Mossy]

Autozone= Free OBD

450 is steep.

Go to a local custom exhasut shop. Buy a quality aftermarket cat and have them weld it in. It should not be too much work.

[JMSinMaryland]

E,
Check with Sue at Russel, to rt 40, make a right on your right. Ask for Pat to look over your car. I believe Howard is right about the warranty. Sue is great with that. Jon.

[PhreakdOut]

I believe the mandated emission warranty for 2000 models was 7yr / 70,000 miles. (So it would be out of warranty.) The new regs (if they're not in place already) are 10 / 150,000.

As for converter failures, they only go bad in three ways:
1) Lead poisoning. (Very uncommon nowadays) This is where lead additives from fuel pass through the combustion process (because they don't burn) into the exhaust. They collect onto the substrate surface and cover the washcoat. Thus rendering the converter ineffective.

2) Wear (Possibly the case considering your miles.) Again the ceramic honeycomb is dipped in a precious metal slurry of platinum, palladium and rhodium. This is called the loading. Afterwards, a washcoat is applied to help the increase effectiveness of the converter while minimizing the amount of loading on the substrate. Over time, the washcoat, whose main purpose is to retain oxygen molicules for reformation. This coating will wear off over time thus reducing the amount of oxygen retained. This can trip off the second O2 sensor as a failed converter.

3) Structural Failure: This is where the sustrate honeycomb breaks apart.

Typical causes are:
a) Rich Fuel condition (at some point) has resulted in unburnt fuel deposits entering the exhaust and reaching the converter. The deposits build up on the converter and reignite / smolder. The temperatures exceed 1200°F and the substrate begins to melt in portions. The honeycomb becomes weak and shatters / breaks apart. Fouled O2 sensors can cause the mixture to richen, leaks upstream of the O2 can cause O2 misreads. As you can guess, any ECU problem, sensor issue or physical mod that results in rich mixture can lead to this.

b) Physical damage: Bottoming out the car going over a speed bump, curb or a Honda Civic. A strike to the converter body is enough to cause a crack in the ceramic.

c) Backfire. (Very rare now days with fuel injection)

d) Substrate mat disintigration. The interim mat between the substrate and the converter shell is like a dense fiber mat. Sometimes made of vermicullite. Once this has failed, then the substrate is able to move and break.


Remember, with physical failures, a plugged or damaged converter is usually a symptom of a problem. Replacing the converter and not fixing the issue that caused a rich condition will doom you to replacing the converter again. (Not under warranty.) If your ride still has the original O2 sensors, I recommend replacing them all.

If your converter brick is in tact, then great! It sounds like it's just worn out and a replacement would be safe. Still change the O2s if they're original. O2 sensors do wear out. (Zirconium coating on the tip wears off over time.)

I'll be in Japan this week, but feel free to PM me if you have questions. I'll try to login from there.

[PhreakdOut]

Autozone= Free OBD

450 is steep.

Go to a local custom exhasut shop. Buy a quality aftermarket cat and have them weld it in. It should not be too much work.

Agreed on the $450. Converters are huge markup for both dealers and muffler shops. The reality in the aftermarket is that universals and direct fit converters use the same bricks and can. The loading is a fraction of the OE (and OE replacement) but usually a fraction of the OE cost.

[P Funky]

Holy cow... I'm completely in over my head here, but okay- I'll try to parse this out a bit.

It sounds like I have a coupe of options:

1) Just replace the converter, b/c it's out of warranty and I'm screwed in that sense. Cost = ??? How much, couldn't find a price on the Magnaflow.(After-market sounds promising, but what about install costs? I definitely can't do that kind of work myself. The $450 quote included installation from my long-time service guy at home in NJ)

2) Get a new exhaust system? I heard somebody say about $500 for that, which is what I'd pay for the converter, but- I'd have to replace the converter anyway? That sounds way expensive, and I honestly don't care that much about upping my car's performance specs to spend an additions $500 on exhaust.

3) Replace the converter and the O2 sensors, which sounds more expensive and less necessary.

Did I get pretty much everything? Because I don't think I understood anything else in the entire thread. Especially the catback. What the hell is a catback?

[808Camry]

You can get a good universal cat for like 50-100. I bought a really good all metalic one for like 150 shipped.

So look for one about 75-100. Then take it to a muffler shop that would charge you about 100-150 for installation and you're done. Anything more than that to weld on a cat is a rip. Trust me, I've been through this before.

Total cost to you $250 plus some leg work.

[P Funky]

Awesome. Dude- you are my hero. I'd come out to Hawaii any day for 'ya. I'd sit on your porch and, like, watch the skies for Japanese planes or something.

[PhreakdOut]

Cat back? That means from behind the converter flange (not including the converter.) This is usually the long center pipe, resonator and rear muffler.