Transponder key questions - help with

[LaraNoober]

I love my newly acquired 2002 SLE. Bought at auction, but it came with NO KEY! I didn't think it was a big deal when I was bidding.

After being fleeced by an unscrupulous locksmith, I have one working key.

I took the car to the dealer to have another master key made. They were unable to program another key and informed me my key was a sub/valet - key.

My journey into transponder-key-hell has begun.

Over the past couple of weeks, I think I have read every post on here that has the word 'transponder' in it - seriously. Extremely informative - I have learned about programming keys, remotes, garage door openers and many other things. To no avail - I am still with one key.

My key will open all locks - doors, trunk, cubbie hole, and works in the ignition, but neither the dealer or myself has been able to use it successfully to program another key. The programming steps work good till the end when the security light never stops flashing.

I know about the difference in programming between master and sub keys.

So,

Question #1. Is there a difference between the cuts of master and sub keys? I read somewhere in here that could be a possibility.

And,

Question #2. Could I have a key that is cut to be a master - since it fits and turns in all locks, but is programmed to be a sub key?

This would explain my keys behavior.

I think if the trunk and glove box could tell the difference between the programmed master and sub keys, there would need to be transponder coils in those locks as well.


I have another appt with the dealer this weekend (24th) to have another ECU installed - at toyos expense - cept labor. I would like to know as much about my situation as possible to prevent another fleecing.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

[alltrac92]

A valet key should only work the doors and ignition.

You need a master key that is already been programmed to the ECU to make another duplicate.

[alltrac92]

I think if the trunk and glove box could tell the difference between the programmed master and sub keys, there would need to be transponder coils in those locks as well.

No the trunk and glove box are just regular locks. Only the ignition
recognizes the transponder key. The valet key cannot be used to make another key it would defeat the whole purpose of it.

[02slera]

i've read that the master key is black where the valet key is gray, or atleast a lighter color.
what you said about the valet key possibly having a slightly different cut makes sense to me but i really dont know. i bought my car used and it only came with a master key so i cant compare to a valet key to look for differences in the cut.

[ozone]

It sounds like what you described has somehow happened. It sounds like it was cut as a master key but programmed as a valet. This is definitely a strange situation. But geez, can't the dealership use the VIN to get you a new master key programmed without using the in-car programming method?

As far as grey and black goes, that's not completely true. New from the factory, you usually get two masters which are black and at least one valet (maybe two, I don't recall) which are grey. But if you get a new key I think they are always black.

When a body shop lost the valet key to my MR2 Spyder, they replaced it with a black one, but I don't recall if they told me only black was available or only masters were available. All I know is I didn't get a grey one.

Either way, won't the new ECU solve the problem? If it won't program off this key, can't they just give you pretty much any master key and program it at that point. Clearly a new ECU can't have an existing key programmed into it. Of course, at that point you would have to buy two keys if you wanted a spare, but at least it can be done.

I'm very interested in how this comes out, because my car came with two key fobs, but only one key, which I hope is a master. Makes me wonder if I'll have the same problem.

Keep us informed, please.

[LaraNoober]

Is there anyone out there with both master and valet keys who could check the cuts?

[alltrac92]

I have two master keys and one valet key. About 90% of two keys are the same just the tip of the key is different. I also have a little aluminum tag on the keyring that has the 5 digit key code. You can get this same key code from the dealership when you provide your drivers license and registration.

To sum it up the dealer can cut you a new key that will work all the locks. They can't program it without at least one existing master key already programmed to the ECU. If you have lost the master key you are screwed...

[alltrac92]

I found this online it may help you figure out what key you have. Insert the key you have into the ignition – DO NOT TURN ON. There are 3 possible things that may occur.
(a) Security light continues to blink = unrecognized key.
(b) Security light goes off IMMEDIATELY = MASTER key
(c) Security light remains illuminated for 1-3 seconds before going out = VALET key

[LaraNoober]

Thanks for all the help, especially ozone and alltrac92. With your info I was able to confirm my suspicions.
When I insert my key in the ignition, the security light stays on for 1-3 seconds then goes out. So, I know it was programmed as a valet. And since it opens all locks, I know it was cut as a master.

I took my car in for a new ECM install today. I'm certain going in with a full understanding of my situation prevented me being charged unneccesarily.

According to the dealer here: In some of the older Toyos - late 90s to early 00s - the ECMs cannot be 'reseeded' for new master keys if all master keys are lost. On the newer Toyos they can reseed for new master keys. For my '02, with no master keys, a new ECM is the only route. This must be a common enough occurrence, hence, Toyos no-charge ECM program - 1x only - for the these models.

So here's how it panned out for me:

- I bought the car at auction with no keys.
- Locksmith provided a key cut as master and magically programmed it as valet - $350.
- New key from dealer cut as master, but not programmable - $60.
- New ECM from Toyo - no charge.
- Dealer install new ECM - $110.
- Dealer reprogram both keys as new master keys - no charge.

It would have worked out pretty good for me had I thoroughly researched the no-key issue before hand. As it stands, I spent nearly half the price of a new ECM getting it all sorted out. Lesson learned. Ouch!

I'm going to tuck these two master keys away and purchase two more keys - online. I'll get one cut as master, one as valet, and I'll program both as valet. This will give me a true valet key - for appropriate uses, and a mutant master key that'll be for everyday use. If I lose the mutant key, I won't have to worry too much as it won't be able to be used to program additonal keys and I can cancel the programming for that key. And, should some miscreants borrow the car without permission, they'll have to replace the ECM at full price (payin it forward).

I knew before the auction there was no key, but didn't know the issues behind it. The other bidders probably knew, which was why thay all dropped out early - and I got what I thought was a smokin deal.

All said and done, kind of an expensive education.
Adding all additonal expenses, I'm a bit above low blue book now. I'm fine with that. The car cleaned up beautifully. It is a sweet ride - quiet and comfy and has some giddy-up to boot! [/u]

[LaraNoober]

Where is a good online place to purchase quality replacement keys? I want to contain my expenses as much as possible, but not end up with something cheaply made or incompatible. Colored keys would be ideal. Also, has anyone had issues purchasing keys online? Thanks.

[mig0s]

Where is a good online place to purchase quality replacement keys? I want to contain my expenses as much as possible, but not end up with something cheaply made or incompatible. Colored keys would be ideal. Also, has anyone had issues purchasing keys online? Thanks.

If you never heard of dealextreme, this is a very good and reliable website for almost everything. Shipping is FREE and fast, so no worries. Here's a link for their replacement keys:
http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/ ... r.74305175

hope you find what you're looking for!

[alltrac92]

Toyotapartsoutlet.com part# 89785-26020 $35.55 with free shipping. The Toyota key is made in Japan. All the other keys I have seen are cheaper around $10-15 but are knockoffs.

[alltrac92]

If you want to buy a valet key with the gray head it's part# 89786-60050

[ozone]

Glad it worked out for you. Sorry about the expense, but at least you didn't spend the money on the locksmith, replacement keys AND an ECU.

So out of curiosity, this one time free replacement of the ECU. . . it goes with the car? Any applicable Toyota that's missing the master keys can be brought in?

[LaraNoober]

As far as the free ECU replacement thing goes - the way I understand it - only one no-cost replacement per car, not per owner and you have to prove ownership. And to which Toyos it applies, I don't know - other than my '02. I don't have the number I called with me, but I'm sure a quick call to your dealer would get you the number, if you are in a similar situation.