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SolaraGuy.com • View topic - new goodies installed
For those looking for more speed through force. Forced Induction; Supercharger,Turbocharger or Nitrous discussion and maintenance.

new goodies installed

Postby trd4life » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:57 am

He needs to bump up the fuel pressure or get bigger injectors to achieve good dyno results. His SAFC is at +50 across the boards to achieve 12:1 a/f which we think is causing the ECU to pull too much timing.
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Postby Eye8Pussies » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:20 pm

he's still on stock injectors? wow....no wonder he said that he needed the fpr to help with his neo settings... I was wondering about that since there isn't that much that the fpr will help in terms of fine tuning once he has the injectors in



and at +50 across the board, the ecu is definitely unhappy. even after a good tune, I would put money on the fact that after he runs the car for a week or two, the car will not run well as the ecu really starts to buck the tune.
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Postby RON » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:55 pm

trd4life wrote: His SAFC is at +50 across the boards to achieve 12:1 a/f which we think is causing the ECU to pull too much timing.


Hmm...Let me get this (I'm new to this type of thing). The SAFC is *telling* the ECU that there is 50% more air comming in than actual. This will fool the ECU to thinking it's mega lean and thus add more fuel. Ok. I can see the ECU pulling timing, but ONLY if we see detonation. You're getting the optimal AF with 12:1..RIGHT? Why would the ECU pull timing in this case?
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Postby RON » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:07 pm

OK..I think I have answered my question..found this:

Why piggybacks (vafc, emanage) “suck” by pgmfi:
Piggy Back controllers allow stock ECUs to do things that they normally can’t do, like run larger injectors or deal with boost. Remember that piggyback controllers work by altering sensor signals before they get to the ECU.
Most of the time, the primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is critically important in a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you “lean” out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal – the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you “richen” a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal – the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying more fuel.
The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used. (see Understanding Maps if you need some help understanding reading Fuel and Ign tables)
But wait, isn’t the Map Sensor used for determining ignition requirements too? When you “lean” out a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood advanced timing. When you “richen” a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood retarded timing. Look at trends horizontally (as MAP changes) in an ignition table, and you will see why this happens. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the “AFC hack” have issues due to excessive ignition advance.
The bottom line: Piggy Back Controllers suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and often this is undesirable.

What is an fmu?:
A Fuel Management Unit (FMU) is a special rising rate fuel pressure regulator placed in the fuel return line of the fuel injection system. This is a very common approach to handling the increased fuel demand required by turbo kits and supercharger kits. It does work. It will make the injectors flow more fuel than their rating. These are used in addition to the factory or aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and only have an affect under boost.
FMUS are rated by the ratio of fuel pressure to boost pressure. For instance, a 10:1 FMU will give you 100psi fuel pressure at 10 psi boost pressure
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Postby trd4life » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:24 pm

King: Josh is the running the URD 318cc injectors,which are more than enough for 7psi ,but, since he is running the larger Twin Turbo Supra MAF, its leaning the car out.

We have a solution in the works (vortech 6:1 FMU), which will bump the fuel pressure up from 42psi (stock) to 63psi under boost, which will allow him to turn his SAFC down to around 20-30%+ as opposed to the current +50 so he will a bunch of timing back.


He is around 250whp, after we fix the fuel issue we will be around 280-290whp






:lol:
Last edited by trd4life on Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RON » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:08 pm

trd4life wrote:
He is about around 250whp, after we fix the fuel issue we will be around 280-290whp
:lol:


Should be interesting to see what I get soon with *only* 5.5lbs (plus Y pipe/cat back) and stock fuel set up . Plan to *go to Church* soon :lol: . BTW...got 261WHP on standard dyno 7 years ago (not Church Hub set up). Everything is still the same, just relocated knock sensor. :wink:
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Postby Akfahad » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:29 am

^^Ron...YGPM; and Gabe's exactly right, thanks bro for chiming in....it'll be a little bit before we finish this thing up, but ideally before the end of the year, but we'll see
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Postby RON » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:49 pm

Good luck with your project...hopefully you'll set the *new standard*. I know Church Dyno reads about 10-15HP higher than standard ones like Dynojet (per the tech at Church), since it's to the HUBS not wheels. Where do you dyno?
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Postby Akfahad » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:03 pm

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