Question for 1mz-Fe guys using the MSD DIS-4 ignition

[JoeB]

The mag states "ignition solutions plasma-booster direct-fire coils solved all sparking problems at a .029 spark plug gap". They even have a photo of them ... they look high tech

How do you attach an image here?

Alex

Alex, the image has to be hosted on the web somewhere, then you point to the url with the img tag as Greg explained above. If you want, you can email it to me and I'll host/post it. -JoeB

[Paladin06Greg]

Hey guys I called them and they do not make a coil for our car. They do have a Plasma Booster for our application.

The mag states "ignition solutions plasma-booster direct-fire coils solved all sparking problems at a .029 spark plug gap". They even have a photo of them ... they look high tech

How do you attach an image here?

Alex

Alex, the image has to be hosted on the web somewhere, then you point to the url with the img tag as Greg explained above. If you want, you can email it to me and I'll host/post it. -JoeB

[Alex(AUS)]

Being the MD of a Software Development company means I can host things pretty easy .

However, I did leave the image at home (the mag pdf is on my home computer). So, I will post it up when I get home later tonight.

I know how to link to an image. I have seen some forums where you can attach an image directly (rather than hosting it). I thought maybe this one has the function to do it.

Maybe the coils were custom but they certainly have them / can make them ...

Alex

[JoeB]

I talked to a guy at Ignition Solutions yesterday. I should say, I talked to "THE" guy. Very impressive and VERY knowledgeable. He told me what they did on that MR2 was go to a direct coil over plug. This requires a stand-alone EMS. I asked if there was a way to do this with a waste spark setup (3 coils for 6 cyl). He said of course, there is always a way. However, it is extremely difficult. It involved custom machining to make brakets for it and some special interceptor box to handle the proper timing or distribution or something like that. Was definitely difficult enough to steer me away from that idea.

I told him I was looking into upgrading my igition system and mentioned all the things I've done with the Red Knight. I told him I was looking at the MSD DIS-4 and alternatively, the Ignition Systems Plasma Booster. I aske if he would explain technically the difference. He did for about 1/2 hour! When he was done I called MSD and asked the same and got very poor response. I called back and a Plasma Booster is on it's way!

I've heard of lots of quality issues with MSD ignition systems in race vehicles. Definitely mount them inside the passenger compartment and use rubber shock absorbing feet. Very fragile with jump starts and the tach adapters are fragile too. On the other hand, there are good points with the MSD, it is very intelligent and adds many features through its programmability (if you need those features).

[Paladin06Greg]

Good luck with it.

A short review of when I spoke with IS they indicated their PB would work in conjunction with the DIS-4 and compliment each other. The DIS stepping up the voltage while the PB would step up the amperage. Did they mention anything like that?

I talked to a guy at Ignition Solutions yesterday. I should say, I talked to "THE" guy. Very impressive and VERY knowledgeable. He told me what they did on that MR2 was go to a direct coil over plug. This requires a stand-alone EMS. I asked if there was a way to do this with a waste spark setup (3 coils for 6 cyl). He said of course, there is always a way. However, it is extremely difficult. It involved custom machining to make brakets for it and some special interceptor box to handle the proper timing or distribution or something like that. Was definitely difficult enough to steer me away from that idea.

I told him I was looking into upgrading my igition system and mentioned all the things I've done with the Red Knight. I told him I was looking at the MSD DIS-4 and alternatively, the Ignition Systems Plasma Booster. I aske if he would explain technically the difference. He did for about 1/2 hour! When he was done I called MSD and asked the same and got very poor response. I called back and a Plasma Booster is on it's way!

I've heard of lots of quality issues with MSD ignition systems in race vehicles. Definitely mount them inside the passenger compartment and use rubber shock absorbing feet. Very fragile with jump starts and the tach adapters are fragile too. On the other hand, there are good points with the MSD, it is very intelligent and adds many features through its programmability (if you need those features).

[JoeB]

We discussed the voltage. The MSD DIS definitely increases the voltage but as he explained it, the voltage only needs to be sufficient and it is more than sufficient without the MSD DIS. It is the current that really makes the difference and that was the big gain from the Plasma Booster. -JoeB

[Paladin06Greg]

Hummm,

Electric current is the rate of charge flow past a given point in an electric circuit, measured in coulombs/second which is named amperes. In most DC electric circuits, it can be assumed that the resistance to current flow is a constant so that the current in the circuit is related to voltage and resistance by Ohm's law.


Voltage is electric potential energy per unit charge, measured in joules per coulomb ( = volts). It is often referred to as "electric potential", which then must be distinguished from electric potential energy by noting that the "potential" is a "per-unit-charge" quantity. Like mechanical potential energy, the zero of potential can be chosen at any point, so the difference in voltage is the quantity which is physically meaningful. The difference in voltage measured when moving from point A to point B is equal to the work which would have to be done, per unit charge, against the electric field to move the charge from A to B.

[Paladin06Greg]

Hummm,

Electric current is the rate of charge flow past a given point in an electric circuit, measured in coulombs/second which is named amperes. In most DC electric circuits, it can be assumed that the resistance to current flow is a constant so that the current in the circuit is related to voltage and resistance by Ohm's law.


Voltage is electric potential energy per unit charge, measured in joules per coulomb ( = volts). It is often referred to as "electric potential", which then must be distinguished from electric potential energy by noting that the "potential" is a "per-unit-charge" quantity. Like mechanical potential energy, the zero of potential can be chosen at any point, so the difference in voltage is the quantity which is physically meaningful. The difference in voltage measured when moving from point A to point B is equal to the work which would have to be done, per unit charge, against the electric field to move the charge from A to B.

MSD Facts:

TECHNICAL FEATURES - DIGITAL DIS-4 PLUS
Operating Voltage: 12-18 volts (neg. ground)
Operating Current: 10 Amperes @ 10,000 RPM
RPM Capability: 14,000 RPM - 4, 6, 8-Cyl. @ 14 volts
Ignition Inputs: 2, 3, 4 - DIS Type
Ignition Outputs: 2, 3, 4 - DIS Type
LED Indicator: Ign. trigger, low battery voltage
Tach Output: (+) 12 volt square wave, 40°
Duration
Rev Limiter: High RPM - Adjustable
Low RPM - Adjustable
Spark Duration: 20°- 4, 6, 8-Cyl. Max Sparks - 12
Energy Output Max: 105-115 milliJoules per spark.
Output Voltage: Primary (Into Coil): 460-480 volts
Secondary: (w/stock coil)
43,000 volts
Weight & Size: 3 lbs., 9.5"L x 4.5"W x 2.2"H



Finally:
THEORY OF OPERATION
CAPACITIVE DISCHARGE
The MSD Digital DIS Series Ignitions feature a capacitive discharge ignition design. The majority of stock ignitions are inductive ignitions. In an inductive ignition, the coil must store and step up the voltage to maximum strength in between each firing. At higher rpm, since there is less time to charge the coil to full capacity, the voltage falls short of reaching maximum energy which results in a loss of power or top end miss. The MSD Ignition features a capacitor which is quickly charged to 460-480 volts and stores it until the ignition is triggered. With the CD design, the voltage sent to the coil is always at full power even at high rpm.
MULTIPLE SPARKS

The MSD Digital DIS Series Ignition produces full power multiple sparks for each firing of the spark
plug. The number of sparks that occur decreases as rpm increases, however the spark series
always lasts for 20° of crankshaft rotation. Above 3,000 rpm there is simply not enough time to fire
the spark plug more than once, so there is only one powerful spark.

REV LIMITER
The MSD DIS-2 and 4 Ignitions are equipped with a built-in adjustable Soft Touch Rev Control.
This rev limit feature can be adjusted in 100 rpm increments using the program switches on the
ignition's end panel. The Soft Touch circuitry provides a smooth and accurate rev limit by dropping
the spark to individual cylinders. The Soft Touch produces a load-free rev limit that is accurate to
within 10 rpm of the selected rpm