Tuning Time

[20SoLaRa02]

Alright everyone, its that time to start tuning. Now i have spoken to some of you about tuning on pms, so now i am making a thread in hopes to draw additional help and to keep this as a thread for future reference.

Current setup:

- 5.5 lb pulley
- jim's fuel mod
- 190 walbro fuel pump
- 330 injectors (correct me if i'm wrong on size but its the one most people are using, the n/a supra injectors)
- jpp header/y-pipe
- apexi WS exhaust
- k&n drop in filter
- safc II
- Innovate LM-2 wideband

some issues i'm having:

1. no matter what i do on the fuel correction for the low map the AFR seems to stay right around 14.7. I tried increasing the correction % on the SAFC to see if the AFR changed at idle or even while holding a low rpm (i.e. 2k). The AFR jus seems to change then steady back out near 14.7. could there be something wrong or is this normal?

2. when driving if i let off the gas and leave the car in gear to let the engine slow me down the AFR shows crazy numbers like 20 all the way up 100 sometimes. the car seems to be responding like normal though. is this an issue?

3. has anybody used the lm-2 on their solara/camry. if so did u guys use the obd-2 cable to read rpm and tps?

I have plenty more questions to come but those are the first ones. Please only post useful comments as i know some will tell me to go to a dyno ect ect. I would hope this could be a good starting point thread for people who want to learn how to street tune themselves.

Thank you,
Michael

[jetbtkng]

take it to a dyno shop, you might mess up your engine, if you feel the need to do it yourself then buy a dyno, go to school , learn how to use it, then tune it yourself, other than that, take it to a dyno shop, my 02 lara im going for 300 plus whp, 8lb pully ported polished heads, cp forged pistons 9.5-1, and my black lara is 285 hp, 6 lb pully, i take them both to a dyno shop.................

[20SoLaRa02]

well if anybody else has info to help me that would be great.

With that being said i might end up going to a dyno shop. can you recommend one to me? i'm in Tustin so i should be somewhat near you Jetbtkng

Thanks

[JavaJoe_2]

This will answer many of your questions: U-Tune.pdf

[Eye8Pussies]

1. Your safc corrections make no difference because it only operates in openloop.

2. This is normal. When you are offthe throttle and still in gear, the ecu senses the load without the throttle and knows that you are decelerating. As such, it then pulls fuel to save fuel.

3. You can use your obd2 hookup or scanner to read that data, but your safc will also read it, so unless you are datalogging, it's no different.

And keep trying. No better way to learn than by doing it yourself. A dyno is no better than street tuning if you have a data logger- ie test and tune at tracks. Just remember to tune conservatively and step by step

Don't listen to people who tell you you can't

[jetbtkng]

i agree with most of what been said above, except for one little thing fellas, the 3.0 is fragil, knock sensors popping, and crappy pistons, that if you get on it and its running lean, its going to break a piston, seat of the pants tunning will work for other cars, but if your trying to get semi big horse power then bring it to a dyno shop, its a lot cheaper than $2-3000 engine rebuild......................

[RON]

1. no matter what i do on the fuel correction for the low map the AFR seems to stay right around 14.7. I tried increasing the correction % on the SAFC to see if the AFR changed at idle or even while holding a low rpm (i.e. 2k). The AFR jus seems to change then steady back out near 14.7. could there be something wrong or is this normal?


Thank you,
Michael

Don't bother with low map (lower throttle) leave them all at *0*. You're going to be in *closed loop* most of the time in this mode anyway and it will hunt for *stoch* A/R 14.5 using o2 sensor. I only set adjustments at HIGH THROTTLE (above 50% position) RPMS 3000-6000..mostly richening 4-9% in that area. When I tuned it at 0% I was very lean at 5.5lbs (A/R was 15!!). Initial changes in the 3-5% area brought the A/R down to 13ish..so I added another 2% after the tune shooting for 12's (no A/R readings though).

[Eye8Pussies]

i agree with most of what been said above, except for one little thing fellas, the 3.0 is fragil, knock sensors popping, and crappy pistons, that if you get on it and its running lean, its going to break a piston, seat of the pants tunning will work for other cars, but if your trying to get semi big horse power then bring it to a dyno shop, its a lot cheaper than $2-3000 engine rebuild......................

That's what a wideband is for... How do you think a shop tunes your car? And at high boost, yes, a piston can come through your block or a rod can snap, but at low boost, it's more likely a slow death.

But quite admittedly, street tuning is not for everyone even though our motors are cheap and plentiful now, since not everybody knows how to swap their own motors.

[20SoLaRa02]

hey thanks guys, that's exactly what i was looking for . i did get on it once in 4th and noticed my a/r in high rpms in open loop i'm assuming was 11.xx i got off the throttle as soon as i saw it getting low. this is with no adjustments to the high map so i may need to add a little fuel early on and pull fuel at the end. seems like the fuel starts kickin in when i hit higher boost 4k+ rpms.

the only issue i'm having now is getting the rpm to read correctly on the data logger. i didn't have much time to play with it today but i will try again. at first the signal seemed fine but then i can't find the part where i went over 3k on the datalogger and i know i did, so i think something may be wrong with the signal, which i have to look into further.

This was a great start and learning experience. i am trying to take this little by little. i am definitely learning a lot and trying to do this in baby steps so i don't blow my motor. with that being said i do very much enjoy working on my car, it gives me a sense of pride in my work. i may not be the best but i'm going to give it my best.

THANK YOU ALL AGAIN,
Michael

[Eye8Pussies]

1. no matter what i do on the fuel correction for the low map the AFR seems to stay right around 14.7. I tried increasing the correction % on the SAFC to see if the AFR changed at idle or even while holding a low rpm (i.e. 2k). The AFR jus seems to change then steady back out near 14.7. could there be something wrong or is this normal?


Thank you,
Michael

Don't bother with low map (lower throttle) leave them all at *0*. You're going to be in *closed loop* most of the time in this mode anyway and it will hunt for *stoch* A/R 14.5 using o2 sensor. I only set adjustments at HIGH THROTTLE (above 50% position) RPMS 3000-6000..mostly richening 4-9% in that area. When I tuned it at 0% I was very lean at 5.5lbs (A/R was 15!!). Initial changes in the 3-5% area brought the A/R down to 13ish..so I added another 2% after the tune shooting for 12's (no A/R readings though).

Yes and no for doing this. If you are the kind of driver who always down shifts when they want power or to pass somebody, then this advice is fine. But if for daily driving, you like to keep your car in the same gear and just hammer it down or go half throttle and pass, tuning only high throttle will make you run lean or rich because you may be in boost due to load but not be in open loop, or be in open loop and not in boost and run rich.

But that has always been the down side of dyno tuning- it is a tune for max power and a full out run, but it may not be the best tune for the street and regular driving. And that's the beauty of street tuning and effectively using the low settings as well- so that the safc has to extrapolate less and do exactly what you want when you want it to.

[jetbtkng]

thats what a dyno shop is for, to tune your car for the best overall street & strip performance, but i run pretty big boost, but 5.5lbs is still pretty agressive, bbq bob runs 5.5, and his boosts to 7psi at higher rpm's, thata why toyota changed from 4.5, to about 4 psi, these are high compression engines, so you need to have a propper tune.................

[20SoLaRa02]

Yes and no for doing this. If you are the kind of driver who always down shifts when they want power or to pass somebody, then this advice is fine. But if for daily driving, you like to keep your car in the same gear and just hammer it down or go half throttle and pass, tuning only high throttle will make you run lean or rich because you may be in boost due to load but not be in open loop, or be in open loop and not in boost and run rich.

But that has always been the down side of dyno tuning- it is a tune for max power and a full out run, but it may not be the best tune for the street and regular driving. And that's the beauty of street tuning and effectively using the low settings as well- so that the safc has to extrapolate less and do exactly what you want when you want it to.

i kind of understand what you are saying here about wanting to tune the low map for daily driving, but what i don't understand is how making adjustments in the low map makes a difference if the ecu does not use it since it is in closed loop. if the ecu is in open loop it only uses the high map correct?

[Eye8Pussies]

Not exactly. Dependin on load and the exact conditions, your car can be in open loop at low throttle and low rpms. i.e. When you are in 2nd gear and you don't want to downshift to first, or highway acceleration in fifth gear when you are going 50mph, or any condition along with going up a hill.

And we know all of these conditions occur in real life, bit not on all out pulls where your foot is always on the floor. And that's why it's not something that is usually tuned on dyno since when your foot is on the floor, you will always be using your high map.

[20SoLaRa02]

1. so the ecu can be in open loop given a circumstance like you mentioned and use the low map settings on the safc?

2. if this is correct, then i'm assuming this is where the TPS percentages u enter for low map and high map come into play.

3. with that being said, if my low map tps setting is at like 20% and the high at 50% and i find myself in a situation where i am on the throttle at like 18% and increasing going up hill in a high gear where the ecu is in open loop, then is that where the low map settings come into effect?

sorry i know what i said may not completely make sense and may be a bit repetitive but if u can asnwer it or need me to clarify let me know.

THANK YOU!!!

[RON]

Well, I simply let the *stock* maps do their thing under lower throttle conditions (under 20% throttle where I *defined* it). The SAF will interpolate between 20%(LOW) and 50%(HI) and go 100% with my settings above 50% throttle (HI). The only possible benefit at LOW throttle would be to lean it out for economy..I just don't see the point though . As far as performance...for me, only WOT (or damn near) is where it's at. Part throttle is just that.