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SolaraGuy.com • View topic - (Research) Dual Exhaust / Larger Front Pipe for Solara V-6
Talk about aftermarket Toyota Solara Gen 2 and 2.5 upgrades.

(Research) Dual Exhaust / Larger Front Pipe for Solara V-6

Postby FLUXEMAG » Tue May 09, 2006 3:15 pm

canuck101 wrote:trd is a JOKE in regard to gen 2 solara performance parts. they got nothing. ugly trd wheels, over priced, so called, "SPORTS PIPE"

forget about dual pipes, forget about super chargers, forget about headers.

i am seriously thinking about selling solara and get g35 coupe.


Have fun with "road roar" and tire cupping. New front tires every 4-9k miles on a rear wheel drive car. What a joke. That car would have been perfect...but I'm not trying to support $600 for two tires three times a year. Maybe if the rear tires did it from burnouts I'd make a tire budget like that.
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Postby PhreakdOut » Tue May 09, 2006 7:15 pm

Solara08861 wrote:PhreakdOut

Can you compare the header bottom end of a Gen2 4cyl with the Scion TC. I want to do an experiment with the TC headers to see if it fits the 4cyl. I don't want to spend the money if I don't have to.

Thanks


I believe it's already been done, but I'll see if I have the exhaust drawings for both systems. It should give me flange position to crankshaft centerline.
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Postby canuck101 » Tue May 09, 2006 7:28 pm

some good posts from phreakout. just expressing my frustration.
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Postby PhreakdOut » Tue May 09, 2006 9:01 pm

PhreakdOut wrote:
Solara08861 wrote:PhreakdOut

Can you compare the header bottom end of a Gen2 4cyl with the Scion TC. I want to do an experiment with the TC headers to see if it fits the 4cyl. I don't want to spend the money if I don't have to.

Thanks


I believe it's already been done, but I'll see if I have the exhaust drawings for both systems. It should give me flange position to crankshaft centerline.


I'll deviate from the topic for just this one additional posting. Then let's stay on the topic of Gen2 dual exhaust.

I checked the prints for the front pipes on the Scion tC and the Camry / Solara I4. The inlet flanges are different. The tC uses a ball joint style connection where the Camry uses a fixed two bolt flange with a pipe stickout.

The Camry / Solara pipe is on the left and the tC pipe is on the right. (These are some old drawings <pre-production> so the flange joint may have been changed. We didn't make these parts so I can't be 100% certain without checking the car.)

So with that bad news out of the way, if any of you are serious about doing this, please PM me and I will try to get you a tC inlet pipe flange. Have a muffler shop make a one bend pipe (for in front of the flex) and weld on the new flange. I wouldn't modify the headers since they are so pretty. Please don't have me jumping through hoops if you aren't going to actually do it.

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canuck101 wrote:some good posts from phreakout. just expressing my frustration.

No problem. We're all a little frustrated after their SEMA photos showing dual exhaust that will never come.
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Draggin this topic out of moth balls!!

Postby PXLpainter » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:01 pm

So Phreak -

Since you ditched the 'Lara are you still interested in helping us pursue this idea? ;)

I have an additional question though - why does the OEM exhaust mans. curve back into a U-turn on the rear 3 cyl before the Y? I noticed the same on the Avalon pipes too... what's their logic for this? :-?
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Exhaust.... (just catching up to ya' all...)

Postby crispone » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:53 pm

So, I just snatched this from the "other forum" where I posted it earlier... (Hi Pix! FOUND you!)

Couldn't we just cut the "U-turn" before the "SQUASH" and find a way to slip both post header/collectors into a muffler-shop "Y" pipe, then have them run a near straight-pipe to the TRD muffler (retaining the flex-pipe up front) and a free'er flowing cat, etc....??? It would HAVE to breathe better...

What I posted elsewhere:

"Hidden Performance!!! (crawl around a little...)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YO!!!!! Have we been under our cars to study this....this....this....relatively direct yet convoluted exhaust arrangement on the 2004 (assuming other years) Solara?

I am waiting on my TRD unit, and figured I'd study the current muffler, (and leading routing while I was at it), to see if any additional improvements appeared apparent.... (i.e.: If the TRD inlet was "fractionally larger" diameter than the leading segment... would an increase in the leading portion match the TRD and remain constant so as not to disrupt the "delicate balance" of todays N/A engines and performance prerequisite "back pressure"..... and could the bends/peripherals found in-line be improved (through replacement or modification to routing, etc...) in a way that improved flow and maintained balance to prevent degradation of performance at certain points on the power curve....) hmmmmmmm.......

Now for the ZINGER!!!!! I make my way up the plumbing (recumbant on my sheet of cardboard in my driveway....) and find this "cherry-bomb" looking glass-pack-esque bulge, preceeded by a "cement-mixer-truck-belly-shaped-suspiciously-cat-converter" looking device, and then, wait.... I can't make it out from the side of the car.... move the cardboard, slip under the front..... and..... WHAT THE @#&!??????? JUST LOOK!!!!! What the HEY is going on with the manifold down-tube routing!!!!???? A transverse V6 with the rear bank of cylinders exhausting down...... and to the FRONT of the car????!!!!!! ONLY TO MAKE A NICE U-TURN and SPLICE into the conjoining front collector by way of SMASHING each tube down to HALF its THICKNESS?????!!!!!

Anybody out there thinking what I'm thinking?

- crisp"
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Postby PXLpainter » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:42 pm

Hey Crisp -

Go to the Introduction page and say 'Hi"!! :D

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Postby Down2TheC » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:23 pm

crispone, that's exactly the area that had the shop in MD drooling to make headers. It's a major choke point when they smash those 2 into 1. They were guessing that a fix for that would bring many horses.

See Phreak's pics on page one, third post for details.
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Postby crispone » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:44 pm

So how do I revive this dialogue? Do we need a new thread?

Gen 2 exhaust.... Dual over Single

- I don't believe you get a benefit that exceeds the penalty of weight gain with a dual exhaust over a single. A single cylinder of metal as a measure of volume of flow per mass of cylinder wall contains less weight, and is capable of moving the flow of both banks of 3 cylinders with a fraction in dimensional increase as a diameter relative to the amount of flow you get from two smaller diameters of tube equating to greater mass. Small diameter changes in a cylinder make large changes in volume of flow. A dual exhaust "re-creates" another cylinder that contains steel tube mass that is using the least efficient portion of the diameter in terms of volume of flow. (Just add a little more pipe diameter... say, about what matches the TRD inlet? You should flow plenty to see good gains.)

- I think the TRD will be a pretty good flowing exhaust. Comments in the thread really criticize it, but I studied it before installation, and I'm not sure why the down-talk. As with the previouse point on dual system mass/flow benefit, unless you are more interested in the intangible facet of STYLE as your focus for consideration, I think it is adequate. I've gotten great flow from 4-1 literbike systems that were course but well balanced, and I gained nicely with a $100 (I tipped the guy $50 up front) run of 3" that had very minimal bends straight out a chrome tip (yup, nothin' but one volume of pipe from the downpipe flex back) on a Supra after the mandrel bent high-dollar HKS (also a very nice system) had to be swapped when It wore out. Fancy doesn't necessarily make it perform better... you gotta' know your driving factors. Performance or Style... (of course, BOTH is a nice ticket!)

anyway.... need to stir up some chatter on the GEN 2 EXHAUST project...

- crisp
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Postby PXLpainter » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:43 am

Too bad Phreak isn't on here much anymore since he got rid of his Solara :( He's the resident exhaust expert!

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Postby PhreakdOut » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:53 am

PXLpainter wrote:Too bad Phreak isn't on here much anymore since he got rid of his Solara :( He's the resident exhaust expert!

"Brian - you out there?"


:P At the tone ... please leave your name, number and reason for calling. ~beep.

Always here ... just in the background. :wink:
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Postby PhreakdOut » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:15 am

crispone wrote:So how do I revive this dialogue? Do we need a new thread?

Gen 2 exhaust.... Dual over Single

- I don't believe you get a benefit that exceeds the penalty of weight gain with a dual exhaust over a single. A single cylinder of metal as a measure of volume of flow per mass of cylinder wall contains less weight, and is capable of moving the flow of both banks of 3 cylinders with a fraction in dimensional increase as a diameter relative to the amount of flow you get from two smaller diameters of tube equating to greater mass. Small diameter changes in a cylinder make large changes in volume of flow. A dual exhaust "re-creates" another cylinder that contains steel tube mass that is using the least efficient portion of the diameter in terms of volume of flow. (Just add a little more pipe diameter... say, about what matches the TRD inlet? You should flow plenty to see good gains.)

- I think the TRD will be a pretty good flowing exhaust. Comments in the thread really criticize it, but I studied it before installation, and I'm not sure why the down-talk. As with the previouse point on dual system mass/flow benefit, unless you are more interested in the intangible facet of STYLE as your focus for consideration, I think it is adequate. I've gotten great flow from 4-1 literbike systems that were course but well balanced, and I gained nicely with a $100 (I tipped the guy $50 up front) run of 3" that had very minimal bends straight out a chrome tip (yup, nothin' but one volume of pipe from the downpipe flex back) on a Supra after the mandrel bent high-dollar HKS (also a very nice system) had to be swapped when It wore out. Fancy doesn't necessarily make it perform better... you gotta' know your driving factors. Performance or Style... (of course, BOTH is a nice ticket!)

anyway.... need to stir up some chatter on the GEN 2 EXHAUST project...

- crisp


I think some where along the way, the message that this was more cosmetic than functional got lost. (That's OK, it's a long winded thread) I don't remember downtalking the TRD as I ran it for years on my Gen2. I loved the sound. I was after something more ...

The rear of the car just "needed" the dual exhaust to balance out the appearance. (Much like the SC430 has) No gain was expected.

I did find the exhaust pinch points though. They were up front in the Y-joint and in the submuffler. My intention there was to give the Solara a little more upper end power at the loss of bottom end.

- Changing the front pipe from the 3.3L Solara Front pipe assembly to the larger diameter 3.5L Avalon front pipe was possible with small modification. (The two inlet flanges needed to be cut off and rewelded on a different rotation. The outlet flange was fine.) I haven't checked the 2007 3.5L Camry pipe as it was not available when I started this thread. It may be a direct swap if someone can get one and compare.

As for the submuffler (Toyota's term for resonator); just straight pipe it.

At the end of the day, all three mods will do the following, so pick and choose what you want:
- Change to Avalon front pipe: Increase upper end power slightly. No one has tested this yet. The service part from Toyota is ungodly expensive because there is a converter in it. (I think the company paid around $900 for it) Finding one from a newly wrecked Avalon is a better option.
- Straight Pipe the Submuffler: No real performance gain but you are getting rid of some lower frequency tuning. 150Hz - 300Hz Toyota will find a frequency that is undesireable (usually at idle) and tune the submuffler to cancel or absorb this problem. We tend to like this sound, so opening it up makes the Solara sound a little deeper.
- The Dual Exhaust: Again, this is for appearance and some acoustics. No performance gain is expected at all. (Expecially due to the increase in vehicle weight.) However, the system should sound a little deeper and the potential appearance would be awesome looking. I deemed the project to be quite a bit of effort. I had many of the pieces ready and then moved on from the Solara. I hope someday to work on a system with someone local to me in Michigan. Perhaps we'll see it tried early next year.
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Postby crispone » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:40 pm

Phreak,

Nice comprehensive response... thankyou! Didn't mean to imply that YOU were the one to put down the TRD... found it odd that someone dogged it somewhere in there.... (My bad on reading back a couple years and rolling all the thread into one comment!)

To clarify: Is that a cat after the "Y" before the resonator? (I'm assuming the "long-glass-pack" looking segment is the resonator, and the short segment w/tapered ends is a cat? (Meaning there are two cats in series for each of the bank of cylinders, the first in the ex. downtubes, and the next being shared by both banks.) I should think "losing" the second cat would be helpful, along with the resonator... even if the headers were left essentially alone, perhaps cutting the pipes just before they get "mashed" and bringing them together into a nice little "Y" right there.... (Hate to leave that "U-turn", but it could be a simple mod that my local muffler shop could pull off for small change. They've done me well on all three supra projects over the years.)

I'll be looking to get some kind of clean shot with either eliminating the resonator and one cat, or going to a high-flow cat.... whether I lose the U-turn or not. (I'm still not sure about hollowing the downtube cats.... could caust trouble, and I hate to lose torque down low.) My main objective will be matching the TRD inlet side diameter and pulling that as straight and consistently as possible from a cross-section/volume standpoint into the downtubes.

You would't happen to know the upper threshold of fuel ratio compensation that the ECU/Injectors are capable of as a percentage increase, would you? (i.e.: I get the tunable CP-e MAF --> and it instigates an incraesed "gain" over the stock ECU signal... assuming that's what's going on with it. One thing I've found, though, is that sometimes you get away with a LEANER mixture when you flow real well because you improve the efficiency, or utilization of cylinder charge and don't NEED as much fuel to compensate under lower efficiency conditions. This has shown up when dialing in FI literbike fuel maps after bumping compression or greatly improving exhaust flow... oops, I'm rambling again!

I'll keep posting if I try something... or even just THINK of it! I think I'm slowly beginning to like this Solara thing.... funny, it took nearly 50k to "find myself" with regards to this ride. I owe it to YOU guys. Damn YOU all!! (Pardon...)

- crisp
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Postby PXLpainter » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:09 pm

^^ Oh yeah! I'm diggin' this exchange now!! :D

Thanks for poking your head in Brian! ;)

BTW - what the hell is that "Stick" you're advertising in your avatar??
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Re: (Research) Dual Exhaust / Larger Front Pipe for Solara V

Postby phatkatcompany » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:59 pm

I have a custom made dual exhaust on my 2006 solara, fits great, sounds great and looks sick
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