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SolaraGuy.com • View topic - CRISPICS of musical aspiration... (Vol. I~?)
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CRISPICS of musical aspiration... (Vol. I~?)

Postby Aotoyota » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:18 pm

haha. i still dont know how you install in like 30-40F

when it gets to the low 60s here im nowhere near the car!
I am going to RTA the car this weekend( if i get a chance)
and will post it up, might help you and everyone with seeing
wth is going on as far as acoustics in the car!~
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Postby crispone » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:38 pm

Aotoyota wrote:haha. i still dont know how you install in like 30-40F

when it gets to the low 60s here im nowhere near the car!
I am going to RTA the car this weekend( if i get a chance)
and will post it up, might help you and everyone with seeing
wth is going on as far as acoustics in the car!~



It's blowing 20-35mph in bands of varying flurries here in Ohio... but the temp. has climbed upward of MID-30's today, and may be good enough for some RCA-play to trouble-shoot my setup some more. I GOTTA get the noise out! (It's ONLY on the rear deck 6x9's... so it's EITHER that amp, or the connections on that leg somewhere.)

I actually have two sets of Memphis RCA's that are not too bad, and MIGHT run them down the left (driver) rocker to the rear. (Leave the OTHER RCA's on the right side.) I have THREE lines (my Kenwood EQ splits ONE input to THREE output RCA's --> Front stage, rear stage and SUB channel... but the SUB RCA's "shouldn't" be a problem if I leave them... they aren't the source of any noise at all that I can tell.


Anyway... weather is the reality of our Midwestern variability. You can't NOT expect the factor of weather at any given moment... so I either make it work... or deal with NINE degree lows by tomorrow night, and who KNOWS what kind of precip. we'll be dealing with!


(Always fun to FINISH some adjustments and then SIT in the carcapsule with it warmed to room temp, then STUDIO-MONITOR a session while the SNOW softly falls and blankets my windshield like a "day-curtain" augmenting my soft-focus view of the wintry world around me...)

On another note, when the ENGINE is OFF, the system is just clean as can be...


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Postby crispone » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:55 pm

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^^^ On a few "tips" re: the RCA's... (DOH!) ...I warmed up the 'lara in the 20-35mph wind and snow... and scrunched myself into the passenger seat with some tools, a camera, and an analytical eye...


Pulled the dash back a little... and loosened the center console...


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Ran some NEW RCA's in a "quick" dry wire just to TEST... and found I had a bad MONSTER cable lead. (Nothing wrong with their stuff... but this one had been "damaged" a little YEARS ago... and I found the old "patch" area... but suspected it's the cause.)

With the NEW RCA cable in place, NO issues like I had before with the ALTERNATOR noise! YES!


Strung the RCA down the MIDDLE, and after taping over the old (damaged) MONSTER cable terminals, tucked them away for removal another day.

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^^^ There's the RCA with the center console pulled up a little.


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^^^ I set the head unit back in place, and before buttoning it all up for good, EAGERLY fired up the system for a test run!

AWESOME!



All I can say is... my system and car is:





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Postby funboy102 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:41 pm

man, i wanna HEAR this system now. Haha, you're giving B&O a run for their money huh? The sound system in a S8 is suppose to be extra-ordinary sounding, like a live symphony or something.
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Postby crispone » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:08 pm

funboy102 wrote:man, i wanna HEAR this system now. Haha, you're giving B&O a run for their money huh? The sound system in a S8 is suppose to be extra-ordinary sounding, like a live symphony or something.



WOW! You're on the other side of the CONTINENTAL DIVIDE for Pete's sake! :o


...a live audition will be difficult, for sure... :-?


:D I KNOW! We'll have some OTHER SG'ers from around HERE check it out in an upcoming SPRING MEET (yet to be staged...) and we'll get some "third party" feedback for the rest of you!

Honestly, I believe despite my "round-and-about" way of getting there, the end result is going to be something quite respectable, considering some of my material and methods! I KNOW this thing just STOMPS on most of the systems I come in contact with... EVEN when they have spent many THOUSANDS of dollars more!

I really love the visceral appeal that is becoming so commanding in my latest iterations... a LOT of control of the volume, accuracy, and BODY of the music! LOTS of "head-room" now, with more dial to play with WITHOUT driving one of the channel pairs to their limit OUT of phase with the others... it's really getting balanced!

One of the primary (AND MAJOR) changes I just made with my experimentation today, was to SWITCH the "REAR" channel EQ "outs" to the FRONT amp. Then put the FRONT EQ "outs" to the REAR channel. This effectively moved the NINE-band EQ to the FRONT STAGING, and the PARAMETRIC EQ (2-band pots) to the REAR fill. MUCH BETTER control over the front stage with the broader control across a greater resolution of frequencies for slope attenuation and sound shaping where I needed it, on the "overly bright" Boston Acoustics! Now they are MUCH more "neutral", allowing me to dial them in with better bass WITHOUT overly extending their drive. The REAR are MUCH easier to dial in for "fill" with the parametric, and don't NEED the finer resolution of control! SUCCESS!

I NEVER even THOUGHT of that arrangement, but will DEFINITELY be keeping it this way hereafter! MUCH BETTER CONTROL between front and rear, and ESPECIALLY better front staging equalization!

AWESOME!


Someday, I'd LIKE to get ANOTHER one of these EQ's and run TWO in a system... with bi-amped fronts and rears... and a DUAL sub (tight 8" and current 12") to "split" duties between the "punches" and the deep concussive lows and subsonic. We'll keep that idea on the back burner for now...



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Postby Aotoyota » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:35 pm

good to hear that the rca was all that was needed!

and for the biamped front stage, its a fun fun horrible thing to do to
oneself! tuning never ends. even as we speak, i got a bug up
my butt and will be spending some time with tomorrow with the RTA
and a whole lot of test music.


on a different note, your eq seems quite aggresive, you might try flipping the tweet out of phase? since it looks like you cut a whole lot outta 2kHz?
that might cure the brightness? you might try the other way also, try the midbass out of phase? which may give you more midbass!

try it if its warm enough and let us all know here!

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Postby crispone » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:04 am

Aotoyota wrote:
on a different note, your eq seems quite aggresive, you might try flipping the tweet out of phase? since it looks like you cut a whole lot outta 2kHz?
that might cure the brightness? you might try the other way also, try the midbass out of phase? which may give you more midbass!

try it if its warm enough and let us all know here!

-e



THANKS! Appreciate your suggestions previously...


I believe what you are seeing in the "dark" shot, is the sub/parametric levels appearing "skewed" relative the rest of the range. Here's some older shots that shows the EQ adjustments a little clearer... and the shot above WITHOUT the benefit of lighting on the control labels. My FRONT stage is a very typical rock "V", and the REAR stage (with the parametrics) is working the mid-bass and I swing the high pot all over the place based on musical "color". Sub is usually cut off at around 70hz or below (believe it's a 12db slope) and the overall KGC 6042 EQ chokes at 100hz for the front/rear stage when the sub button is ON in a passive cross before the amps. Does that make more sense?


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^^^ In the NIGHT shot, it LOOKS like the EQ is really "whacky" up through the top... but only the first 9 bands from the left are the front staging set. :wink:




The top range is a LITTLE shrill with certain music on the Boston's... but it's a small slide on a couple bands and I can take it out pretty quick. I run my H/U with +1 for BASS, and +4~+5 (out of +-7) on the TREBLE. Then I tune rear FILL first, front stage next, add SUB to each independently and finesse... then combine both w/o sub, bring sub back in... and do VERY LITTLE to F/R staging after... but work the sub volume and slope a little to taste based on music. My Memphis monoblock is left with "low pass" filter OFF, and I set the built-in low cut at about 200~250hz, so it's able to work whatever signal limits I send it. Sub enclosure is tuned at 45hz. Sounds great!


PS: EQ is THREE CHANNELS OUT. (Front/Rear/Sub... EACH have equalization AND level control. BEST system shaping "in-dash" tool I'm aware of... at least ANALOG-wise.)


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Postby crispone » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:22 am

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^^^ That's the specs. on that EQ. It's a really nice piece!


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Postby [SMAN] » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:05 am

Crisp, maybe i missed it in the tons of posts here, but is your take on the XTC Foam Baffels? I've been tossing around the idea of picking up some myself. And reviews seem to be mixed at best. Also were there any clearence issues with them hitting the window or stuff like that?
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Postby crispone » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am

[SMAN] wrote:Crisp, maybe i missed it in the tons of posts here, but is your take on the XTC Foam Baffels? I've been tossing around the idea of picking up some myself. And reviews seem to be mixed at best. Also were there any clearence issues with them hitting the window or stuff like that?


I like to use them, but I always "vent" them out the bottom/side or back. Enough not to "pressurize" because I tend to get a pretty good seal around the baffle/basket mount, and some drivers don't like to be "limited" in that enclosure... especially when pushed. I suspect NON-baffled applications will always VARY in results based on door design and chamber acoustics, etc... but if you ALWAYS use the baffles, and don't seal them, I think you are hearing more of the SPEAKERS character by neutralizing the "housing" impact.

YES! You DO have to watch out for clearance! Some DUCT TAPE can pull the baffle DOWN to allow a window to clear it, or "catch" it at an angle and prevent "ripping it" out or something... which I HAVE experienced years ago.


G/L!


(PS: Be SURE to vent so IF moisture gets in, it is draining out the LOWEST POINT at the bottom of the baffle. (Usually also the opening I take the speaker leads through.)


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Postby [SMAN] » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:40 pm

crispone wrote:
[SMAN] wrote:Crisp, maybe i missed it in the tons of posts here, but is your take on the XTC Foam Baffels? I've been tossing around the idea of picking up some myself. And reviews seem to be mixed at best. Also were there any clearence issues with them hitting the window or stuff like that?


I like to use them, but I always "vent" them out the bottom/side or back. Enough not to "pressurize" because I tend to get a pretty good seal around the baffle/basket mount, and some drivers don't like to be "limited" in that enclosure... especially when pushed. I suspect NON-baffled applications will always VARY in results based on door design and chamber acoustics, etc... but if you ALWAYS use the baffles, and don't seal them, I think you are hearing more of the SPEAKERS character by neutralizing the "housing" impact.

YES! You DO have to watch out for clearance! Some DUCT TAPE can pull the baffle DOWN to allow a window to clear it, or "catch" it at an angle and prevent "ripping it" out or something... which I HAVE experienced years ago.


G/L!


(PS: Be SURE to vent so IF moisture gets in, it is draining out the LOWEST POINT at the bottom of the baffle. (Usually also the opening I take the speaker leads through.)


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Ok just so i'm perfectly clear with what you said. The baffels are too deep to put into the door without it hitting the window, so some sort of modification is required to make them clear it? What about the rear deck, do you know if it clears the trunk tensioners? The reason i ask is i plan on hitting the foam with some ressin and the like to make it strong. But like some people have been saying that the space they create is just too small, so i'm debating about cutting the back off it to open it up.

Basicly in the front doors i'm going to be using my old Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 and in the rear deck i have a new set of CDT CL-69x on their way. These of course will be powered by my amps and i figure if the sound isn't that good, I have either an AudioControl DQS or an RF 3Sixty.2 to tweak the sound since they both over 30bands of EQ with 6 channel processing. So i'm just ordering the last few pieces before i start building ampracks and stuff next weekend.

So it sounds like getting the baffels should be ok. I guess i can allways remove them if it sounds like crap.
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Postby crispone » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:57 pm

sman,

the baffles can vary in dimension by make and model. Your install can also add variability, so no single answer will always be right.

I think there is interference with the baffles. It's JUST subtle enough in my install that I barely brush the glass, and left it alone. I can't hear or sense it from in the car.

Rear deck DOES interfere with the springs, so you have to get creative. I have NOT yet completed my layout and the rear are heavy foam tape ADHERED from the top, with NO baffle at the moment.

Hope that helped.

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Postby Aotoyota » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:12 am

let me chime in, i have the infinite baffle setup where i made a spacer for the speaker and sealed the whole door up with dynamat, inside and out.
plus my door measures down to 40hz with pink noise, effectively, i can get about 50hz before cone breakup...

a speaker baffle simply put, is an enclosure for the speaker.

pros? usually more bass better; sound sometimes (rarely)

cons? too small of an enclosure can do more harm than good.
you might gain more midbass but might suffer the rest.

personally, i give the speakers as much space as i can give it. and by using dynamat or deflex pads, the reflection of the soundwave is minimized when it hits the outer skin of the door. that reflection is the direct cause of distortion.

putting it in the enclosure helps absorb it, but too small of an airspace will make the speaker suffer in different areas.

The crisp technique with an opening on the bottom creates a port for the air to go out. which will make it sound louder automatically. it works but ever wonder what its like without it?? hmmm.
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Postby [SMAN] » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:50 am

Well i figure that i'm gonna have my sub taking car from 80 maybe to even 100 if i can get teh box set right, So i'd think it would be better to have the more attenuated response of the baffels and just EQ it to taste.
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Postby crispone » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:13 pm

[SMAN] wrote:Well i figure that i'm gonna have my sub taking car from 80 maybe to even 100 if i can get teh box set right, So i'd think it would be better to have the more attenuated response of the baffels and just EQ it to taste.



I'd consider Aotoyota's experience real seriously here. In fact, I'd RATHER go that route myself. I've always had concern (bad past experience) with moisture in a couple vehicle doors (past glass, I suspect...) and did not like the exposed speaker "back-side". I think the "prerequisite" preparation INSIDE the door is the "KEY" here, and would try the "open" method in that arrangement. I've also previously JUST used the baffle "flange", and cut them an inch or two deep so they are more of a "liner" and large "channel" that doesn't effect the driver excursion at all. Just some other options to consider... as the foam can help "less-than-perfect" seating speaker baskets to the mount.

Aotoyota,

I'm used to following the principle that open speakers are "inefficient". On the other hand, they may DISTORT when improperly contained, as you say! (More volume at cost of sound quality... )

Appreciate the input. This is "crisp's" learning odyssey, laid out for all to "milk" for anything it's worth! :wink:


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