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Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby Solorange » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:04 pm

Ok so here is the long story so you know what exactly Im dealing with.

I lowered my car back in 2006 with tein s-tech springs and tokico shocks. I got an alignment done right after that by a regional tire shop called Bob Sumerall. They said I didn't need a camber kit. I rolled for a year on the stock wheels and tires for one year with no issues.

I bought my 18" enkei with 225/40/18 Kumho ecsta SPT tires from Bob Summerall in 2007 and had them do the alignment again. After one summer I noticed just on the front tires only that they were wearing on the inner side like the camber was off. I put the stock wheels and tires on as I run those for the snow months usually from November to April and had Bob Sumerall do the alignment again. No issues with the stock tires. That next summer I put the 18's back with the kumho's rotating the good tires up front and running the bad tires in the back. The tire wear still occured and ruined only the front tires the rears stayed the same as they were. By this time the Kumho's were shot.

The next summer which I think was summer of 2009 I bought Nitto NeoGen tires the same size to replace the Kumho's. Got the alignment done one and final time by Bob Sumerall. The tire wear still only happened on the front tires again. Ran the stock wheels and tires that winter no issues. Then summer of 2010 I took the car for an alignment at national tire and battery (NTB). They told me the toe was way out. They also didn't think I needed a camber kit. They adjusted it. Now at the end of this summer the wear is even worse and more on the edge.

I still have some of the settings that Bob Summerall has done for me, but I don't have the latest specs from NTB as they don't have a computer that prints off the settings. I bought a alignment package from them so I can take it to them as many times I want and they will do the alignment. Im going to take it back to them and have them write down the current specs and then readjust it and write down the new specs. The Nittos are now spent so next summer I need to buy another set of summer tires. I only make it about 14months (12,000 miles) on summer tires before they wear out. This winter I also have to buy winter tires as the stock tires are now worn out with normal wear and I got about 85,000 miles on those.

Im supposed to take my car into NTB tomorrow when their aftermarket wheel specialst will be in to do the alignment. Ill post up the specs tomorrow night. Maybe if any of you have the same setup with wheel and tire sizes plus lowering can share your specs so I can compare.

Thanks for your help

These are the pictures on the front passenger side:
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Here are the pictures from the front drivers side (not as bad as passenger side)
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby indiglosolara » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:09 pm

that doesn't look so much like camber wear but toe wear... the toe isn't aligned correctly.
Also toe not aligned correct does more damage then camber.
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby Toy1mzfe » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:14 pm

Toe causes more wear than camber. Looks like toe to me.
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby 1gSE » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:21 am

^^^ what they said
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby crispone » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:25 am

I thought "toe" as soon as I saw the pics... then what everyone else is saying followed! :wink:


From information provided, that would be my initial guess...


NOTE: How's your over/under steer?




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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby Solorange » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:26 pm

I took it to the NTB today and their alignment specialist took a look at it. The camber was slightly off on the passenger side and the toe was fine. On the driver side the toe was slightly out and the camber was good. Apparently their computer can print the specs so I did get a copy of before and after. Ill scan them at work and post them tommorrow.

He didn't see anything loose on the suspension. He was actually shocked that the wear was as bad as it was based on the current settings. He thought maybe the brand of tires may be the issue. But I had the issue with Kumhos and Nittos.

I asked him if he thought it had to do with wider tires on the car and he said that shouldn't cause it. Im at a loss on this. When I post up the specs tomorrow tell me what you think if the settings are ok. They set them within the factory specs.

If any of you can post up your alignment settings for your gen 1s that might help me for comparison.
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby crispone » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:57 pm

What tire pressures do you run? Low pressure can cause outside wear earlier than inside... and heat related stress wear on the edge area.

(They don't really look low in the pictures though... do you have to fill them often? Do they "loose air" just sitting?)




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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby Solorange » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:50 pm

Ok so I scanned the spec sheets at work and since the print was so light it wasn't eligable. So here are the specs

Before alignment:
Front Left: Camber -1.2deg
Caster 2.1deg
Toe 0.17deg
SAI 14.4deg
Included Angle Turing Angle Diff. 13.2deg

Front Right: Camber -1.5deg
Caster 2.0deg
Toe -0.04deg
SAI 14.1deg
Included Angle Turning Angle Diff. 12.6deg

Rear Left: Camber -0.6deg
Toe 0.27deg

Rear Right: Camber -1.1deg
Toe 0.27deg


After alignment the only things he changed was the toe up front.
Front Left toe -0.01deg
Front Right toe -0.02deg

OEM Specified Ranges

Front:
Camber -1.3 to 0.2deg
Caster 1.4 to 2.9deg
Toe -0.10 to 0.10deg
SAI 12.2 to13.7deg
Included Angle Turning Angle Diff. 10.9 to 13.9deg

Rear
Camber -1.4 to 0.1deg
Toe 0.10 to 0.30deg

Let me know if you see anything odd.

Crispone I run my tire pressure at 35 pounds. Not sure what is typical for low profile tires but I figured 3pounds above the factory specs may be ok. Also the tires hold the air no problem.
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby crispone » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:43 pm

Solorange wrote:Ok so I scanned the spec sheets at work and since the print was so light it wasn't eligable. So here are the specs

Before alignment:
Front Left: Camber -1.2deg
Caster 2.1deg
Toe 0.17deg
SAI 14.4deg
Included Angle Turing Angle Diff. 13.2deg

Front Right: Camber -1.5deg
Caster 2.0deg
Toe -0.04deg
SAI 14.1deg
Included Angle Turning Angle Diff. 12.6deg

Rear Left: Camber -0.6deg
Toe 0.27deg

Rear Right: Camber -1.1deg
Toe 0.27deg


After alignment the only things he changed was the toe up front.
Front Left toe -0.01deg
Front Right toe -0.02deg

OEM Specified Ranges

Front:
Camber -1.3 to 0.2deg
Caster 1.4 to 2.9deg
Toe -0.10 to 0.10deg
SAI 12.2 to13.7deg
Included Angle Turning Angle Diff. 10.9 to 13.9deg

Rear
Camber -1.4 to 0.1deg
Toe 0.10 to 0.30deg

Let me know if you see anything odd.

Crispone I run my tire pressure at 35 pounds. Not sure what is typical for low profile tires but I figured 3pounds above the factory specs may be ok. Also the tires hold the air no problem.



That seems 5~10psi low to me. (cold)




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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby crispone » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:48 pm

I just looked at the tire pics again. Is there ANY chance of some "dog-tracking" front-to-rear? (diagonal loading) Are the REAR exhibiting the condition MORE than the front?


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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby Solorange » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:39 pm

Really? You think I need to run the tire pressure around 40 to 45psi for my low profile tires??? That seems so high but if thats what it needs to be I guess that may be the problem.

Not sure what your mean by dog tracking. Are you saying if the rear is loaded more than the front? If so then maybe. I carpool to work which is about 80miles there and back and we have 3 people in the carpool. One person in the back seat which lowers the rear a bit.
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby indiglosolara » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:35 pm

that pressure seems kind of high to me...
I run mine at 34-36 without any issues
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby crispone » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:29 pm

You guys may be right. I am used to running 50 series sidewalls on my tires, and 44psi is not unusual.



Still looks like very awkward wear to me...



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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby Solorange » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Crisp what do you mean by dog tracking?
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Re: Need Help Resolving Bad Tire Wear Issue

Postby crispone » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:17 pm

Centerline of front axle and rear axle NOT on the same axis. One way to tell quickly is to drive in soft, undisturbed dirt that leaves a clean tread. (Drive in VERY STRAIGHT LINE) Then see if your rear tires are tracking IN your front tire ruts or OFF LINE a bit to one side.


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