Variable Valve Timing?

by **indiglosolara** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:46 pm

Rudy wrote:he said if you want a plaform with the ability to do VVT swaps and good VVT go honda.

VTEC > VVT-i

thats not always the case... vtec tends to kick in at higher rpms... where the vvt-i its response throughout your throttle... vvt-i is kinda like vtec but not all the same...

vvt-i and vtec can't really be compared since they do diff functions on diff engines...

by **bkp_duke** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:55 pm

^^^ EXACTLY!

In fact, most of the engine designers agree that VVTi has a leg up on VTEC because it provides increased throttle response from idle to redline (guess that's why Honda re-did VTEC and now calls it VTEC-i)

cheers

by **Rudy** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:05 pm

i dont care which is better stock, the VTEC platform has a higher potential in the longrun.

that and it's so much more fun to drive

by **bkp_duke** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:15 pm

No, the VTEC platform doesn't have more potential in the longrun. VTEC hit it's limit about 4 years ago and that's the EXACT reason Honda had to rework it and come out w/ VTECi (which is more of a true variable lift than than the original VTEC ever was - essentially they had to COPY what Toyota had done just to catch up).

And how does a valve lift system make the platform "more fun to drive"?

by **Rudy** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:30 pm

bkp_duke wrote:No, the VTEC platform doesn't have more potential in the longrun. VTEC hit it's limit about 4 years ago and that's the EXACT reason Honda had to rework it and come out w/ VTECi (which is more of a true variable lift than than the original VTEC ever was - essentially they had to COPY what Toyota had done just to catch up).

And how does a valve lift system make the platform "more fun to drive"?

ever driven one?

they're just so fun to push to the limit, i drove my friends EG hatch with a GSR motor in it, and it was great.

VTECi = part of the vtec platform isn't it? :drinking:

i think so...

by **indiglosolara** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:35 pm

I've driven both the Vtec/vtec-i and VVT-i platforms and non vvt-i platforms.

I used to own a intergra w/a GSR. When that motor blew i swaped in a LS Vtec. yes it is fun to drive but also has its limits.. My GF has a 2004 accord with vtec-i and it has good throttle repsonse but she said she doesn't like it due to the power lack and lack of low end torque.. compared to when she drove my solara. but she has great high end power.. I love driving her car on the freeway but local streets i like the solara better.

in the end vtec/vtec-i and vvti can't be comapred.. its not even the same engine..!!!! honda is honda
toyota is toyota

i do agree that the 5s-fe engine without vvt-i does have lag.. my 94 camry is a 5s.. and i can tell the engine lacks power and is sluggish.
but my camry has 240k miles on it with Original Tranmission and Original Engine. only thing that was replaced recently was the clutch and timing belt.. and still runing strong.....

i wanna see a honda do that.!!!

by **onefiend** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:37 pm

VTEC was always better than VVT-i, VTEC is just not continuous like VVT-i and does kick in at a certain rpm range, but VTEC offered the variable valve time and lift which VVT-i did not, the lift allows a longer opening for the exhaust valves creating more hp and thus had more potential.

But with the VVTL-i engine found in the GTS Celica it is similar to VTEC & i-VTEC, difference between VTEC and i-VTEC is that i-VTEC is now continuous. If I am wrong on this somebody correct me.

by **Rudy** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:07 pm

iazuncupidi wrote:i wanna see a honda do that.!!!

There really is no way to respond to this. Honda's do this all the time

by **bkp_duke** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:07 pm

ever driven one?

they're just so fun to push to the limit, i drove my friends EG hatch with a GSR motor in it, and it was great.

VTECi = part of the vtec platform isn't it? i think so...

Yes, I have. Ex GF had a 97 Prelude and the performance was just not that impressive, even at 6500RPM.

Oh yeah, and if you ask 10 different auto engineers what the "platform" is, you will get 10 different answers. Some say it is just the engine and tranny, some say just the tranny and suspension, some say all 3, etc. etc. etc. In its most basic form the term is used to describe some re-usable system the auto company has come up with to base multiple product lines upon. Since VTEC and VTECi are NOT in most of the Honda cars and are promoted more as performance versions of the base models, I would have to say they are NOT an integral part of the platform.

by **indiglosolara** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:12 pm

Rudy wrote:
iazuncupidi wrote:i wanna see a honda do that.!!!

There really is no way to respond to this. Honda's do this all the time

Usually not on the original tranny or engine. Most honda's that i have seen with high mileage have had major engine work done to it or rebuild something...(IE engine tranny). My intergra engine only lasted me about 60 k miles.. but then i again i ripped the hell outta that engine...

by **Rudy** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:28 pm

bkp_duke wrote:
ever driven one?

they're just so fun to push to the limit, i drove my friends EG hatch with a GSR motor in it, and it was great.

VTECi = part of the vtec platform isn't it? i think so...

Yes, I have. Ex GF had a 97 Prelude and the performance was just not that impressive, even at 6500RPM.

Oh yeah, and if you ask 10 different auto engineers what the "platform" is, you will get 10 different answers. Some say it is just the engine and tranny, some say just the tranny and suspension, some say all 3, etc. etc. etc. In its most basic form the term is used to describe some re-usable system the auto company has come up with to base multiple product lines upon. Since VTEC and VTECi are NOT in most of the Honda cars and are promoted more as performance versions of the base models, I would have to say they are NOT an integral part of the platform.

read my post again, you got it completely wrong

VTECI is part of the VTEC platform

and the performance on 97 ludes in general isn't impressive, they're fat ass cars, the 4th gens were so much better.

and about the GSR, that engine only lasting 60k miles is incredibly horrible. My friend bought his GSR motor swap w/ like 70k on it and it's running like butter. Maybe you just drove it really hard. Also, you're comparing the life of your 94 camry with a car in a completely different market segment. You drive a fuel economy tuned reliable low hp output 4. The GSR is a high reving sporty engine, completely different.

take an accord/civic from the same year and look at the life on those

by **bkp_duke** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:41 pm

Rudy wrote:VTECI is part of the VTEC platform

read mine again. VTEC is NOT a platform. :roll:

and VTECi is completely different than VTEC, the only thing the same is the 4 letters of the name.

VTEC = lift at high revs for better valve opening
VTECi = variable lift throughout the throttle w/ added lift at higher revs (hmm, sounds a lot like VVTL-i)

by **Rudy** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:59 pm

bkp_duke wrote:
Rudy wrote:VTECI is part of the VTEC platform

read mine again. VTEC is NOT a platform.

"Since VTEC and VTECi are NOT in most of the Honda cars and are promoted more as performance versions of the base models, I would have to say they are NOT an integral part of the platform."

that's not what you said at all, you said that vtec was not an integral part of the honda platform. I was referring to the VTEC/VTECI platform vs the vvti/vvtli platform. My original platform post was in response ot this.

"In fact, most of the engine designers agree that VVTi has a leg up on VTEC because it provides increased throttle response from idle to redline (guess that's why Honda re-did VTEC and now calls it VTEC-i)"

where you seperate VTEC and VTECI as if they're comepletely different, but in truth, while they may be quite different, they're still VTEC, and use the VTEC namesake or, gasp, platform.

I'm really tired so i hope i'm articulating this corectly

by **pythonjosh** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:58 pm

I don't know dudes. But my roommate used to have a 94 accord with the JDM h22a swap, headers, exhaust, CAI, 3 10's and 2 600w amps. And he'd still kill every car that tried to push on him. I can say the JDM H22a had a whole lotta torque and definitely would kill any VVT-i with the same mods. And I do agree driving a VTEC is a lotta fun adding another 10-15 horses (?) and hearing the engine scream at high rpm's is amazing. Well, he also had the mugen chip which disabled the governor and he could bring it up to 9k rpm! Which of course is different from all other VTEC's (we've killed them too), including anything 'powered by GSR'. But I do agree that VTEC is hard to compare to VVTi, they're just different. I think we should still continue our goal to make our cars more powerful than the VTEC's by sc'ing and CAI. That's the only we can compare is by our own upgrades to defeat any VTEC we see, given we don't even have VVTi. AND VTEC can still be both SC'ed and TC'ed.

Variable Valve Timing?

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