Valve tapping - springs or valve clearance cuasing noise?!

[trioptimum]

Went to the dealer today (mechanic yesterday) to inquire about a noise that's been there since I got the car a few weeks ago (99 V6). It's a clicking/rattling noise that gets slightly higher pitched as you rev the engine; can't hear it inside the car or with the hood down.

Edit: I've learned the proper term for what I was trying to say, it's valve tapping, due to the valve springs needing adjsuted, or the valve clearance needing adjusted with shims (dealer said they'd re-adjsut the springs, mechanic said he would put shims in it to fix it). I don't know which one it is - any insight to the problem?

Should the mechanics (either dealer or my other mechanic) be able to tell which one it is wiithout a problem once it's opened up?

Dealer also quoted me $199 for the timing belt with coupon, and $220 additional for the water pump which they recommended I do. Sounds like a decent price for the dealer, couldn't beat it anywhere else I checked.

Thanks in advance for any insight!

[DatSRBoi]

That was the same thing with my car..The pulley bearing thing that tightens up the belt got old.. Not too bad of a deal.... BUTTTTT. I wouldnt need to put 220 for the water pump..Toyota V6 water pump are one of the best pumps around. It will last a long time so I dont think you need to waste that money on it.. My other unlce (Not the 93 camry V6 one with 300K plus nor my other uncle with a 95 corrolla with 240K and finnally getting oil change for the first time and everything else...Tells you how good toyota motors are) has a 99 camry with the 1Mz too and he abuses his car allot. Its sitting at 120K now and the motor is good as it can be..


Its recomemended but if your tight on money and some what its not needed..The water pump was expected to last a long time

[trioptimum]

Edit: see above, I've properly explained the problem now. Here's a link on the possible culprit:

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/15/72/42/0900823d80157242.jsp

Sorry for being so confused, I've gotten virtually no sleep this week, what with changing my front brakes at 12am Sunday and Monday, so I can't really seem to get terminology straight today... .

As for the water pump, if I don't do it, I'll just worry about it. I've got ~$1k to put into making this thing purr, then I'm broke until next summer's job.

[Monkeyman]

I don't know the V6 engine that well, but I am sure that it has hydraulic "lifters" or "tappets"(being a newer DOHC I would expect Tappets). Both of these are self adjusting, so you shouldn't need to adjust the springs or valve lash..... ever (eventually the springs will wear and need replacement, but I doubt seriously that this is so with your car). Here is a link to the Volvo 5 cylinder engine version which should be similar: http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/HydraulicTappets.pdf

Hope that helps some.

[trioptimum]

Actually, I was told this engine doens't have the hydraulic lifters, so it will need adjusted eventually - they checked that first and it wasn't the problem.

Anyway, it turned out to be the cam tensioner spring bolts, someone dind't put the springs on the front and back of the engine cams back in correctly, and they were rattling around in there. THey told me it owuld eventually cause damage to the came and other stuff in there.

$700. $450 for the rear, $150 for the front, $100 in gaskets/etc charges and tax. Damn. Good news is since they nearly took apart the whole engine to get to both the springs, they said every thing looks fine (no sludge, which I was worried about, and no cam damage from the springs being loose).

Bad news is someone had the engine apart (and didn't put these springs on right), I've no idea why; potentially some problem lurking somewhere. They said it wasn't a dealership or reputable job because someone used silicon to seal it up instead of gaskets afterwards. The same jerk probably busted the caliper bolt heads on my back wheels ><!

There goes the alarm and tires I needed... *sigh* and I get ~14mpg to boot. I'm looking at new $10-12k Scion's at the moment, 2 months owning this car and already $1.5k into parts on this car, one more big breakdown and it's gone.

I'll trade a slow ugly car for one that keeps me broke and scared of what's next... just hope it doesn't keep it up, I do love the way it drives and looks .

[JAYDEE23]

YA THAT SUCKS..SORRY TO HEAR YOU ARE HAVING SO MANY PROBLEMS W/ THIS SOLARA.
SEEMS THE OWNER BEFORE YOU WAS A DIY'ER W/ NO KNOWLEDGE?

[trioptimum]

Well, some, he did get it all back together minus the springs. Oh well. The car shouldn't give me any more problems, I had the dealer look it over good before I plunked $700 down on it... need a timing belt in 2 years and tires for Christmas season and that's about it now.

[dominoSLEV6]

Nice page and instructions on the DIY valve adjustment though.

-chris

[Hefty]

I think the term "valve clearance' is a dumbed down term to describe it. Mechanics in the know will generally refer to it as "run through the valve lash" or maybe even "run the valves". This entails the process of turning the engine over to his each cylinders appropriate compression stroke and using a feeler gauge to check the gap between the top tip of the valve stem and the roller surface of the rocker arm. A valve's lash puts slack into the valve system to absorb the vibrations that run through the valve train particularly at high RPM.

Generally shims in the valve springs are required when upgrading your valve train to different cam/spring/cylinder head/rocker arm configurations.

The geometry of modern valve systems is extremely precise and is admittedly the one area of a motor where I've encountered a several problems when trying to work on them. Its by far one over anything else in internal engine work that can turn into a big spaghetti mess if your not careful and meticulous is what your doing.

You got lucky I thinks. That tapping sound you heard could have very easily been the valves slamming into the top of the piston which would have caused bent valve stems. Only thing to do at that point is to rebuild the head entirely. At various moments during the stroke cycle on many engines now days the piston is coming within tenths maybe even hundredths of an inch from touching the valves. There is not much room for error.