Supercharger & Additional Parts

by **Luc** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:25 am

Yanks, I understand you may definitely feel boost in first gear, and just because a TRD dealer installed it doesn't necessarily mean it was done the right way. Forget about getting answers from TRD, since they will neither confirm nor deny because they don't want to be caught in a world of words where they can get sued. When the S/C first came out, they said that it will fit models such as the respective years of Avalon and ES300, and they've never confirmed it, thus, no application for them. But now, we do know that the Avalon ('97-'98) can be boosted.

It is a very easy check, even if you don't have a boost gauge, just find where the EBC is at and trace the wires that tap into the ECU and II2 connectors. Of course, you'll have to drop the glove box, kick panel, etc. to find it. It takes up less time (and money) than to run the hose & wires for a gauge. Then verify with the manual as to which method it was connected. That's all.

by **Flipside909** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:39 am

Need I say more? This is coming from not just one Camryman veteran...but TWO! These guys are the first few with the S/C when it came out FYI. Need more proof? I can get more if you want. You're testing the wrong person if you're looking to argue.

by **Yanks0114** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:47 am

Luc wrote:It is a very easy check, even if you don't have a boost gauge, just find where the EBC is at and trace the wires that tap into the ECU and II2 connectors. Of course, you'll have to drop the glove box, kick panel, etc. to find it. It takes up less time (and money) than to run the hose & wires for a gauge. Then verify with the manual as to which method it was connected. That's all.

I have allready done this and it is wired as an auto. The only difference is the grounding of an extra wire.

by **Yanks0114** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:54 am

Flipside909 wrote:Need I say more? This is coming from not just one Camryman veteran...but TWO! These guys are the first few with the S/C when it came out FYI. Need more proof? I can get more if you want. You're testing the wrong person if you're looking to argue.

I'm not looking to argue, I am genuinely curious to see if you are correct. Logically I'd say it would have boost because who the hell wants a SC that wouldn't boost in 1st gear. I personally have proof because mine is setup as an auto and I have boost.

Think about it this way...
Why would someone buy a SC that has an MSRP around $3999 when it won't give you boost in first gear. We all know that boost hits around 3800rpm, so that means you won't feel any boost until around 60MPH.

In order to hold a gear to the 3500+ RPM range you'd need to press very hard on the throttle. If you were crusing at 30mph you might be in 3rd. The tranny downshifts to 1st until 38-40mph then in second by the time you got to 3800rpm it would be 60mph. What good is that? It would only be useful for highway driving.

If what you say is true about there being no boost in first, why wouldn't it be included in the FAQ on the manual. Look in the install booklet, there is a very detailed instruction set and FAQ. If you look at the auto section it specifically states that you won't have boost for .6 seconds between shifts, but nowhere does it mention that you won't have boost in first gear. Maybe you are confusing the fact that there is no boost between shifts with the entire lack of boost in 1st.

by **Luc** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:56 am

I'm looking at the EBC connection up now, and there is only grounding of ONE wire, the white-black, nothing else. Which other wire you see is grounded? For a manual connection, both the purple and white-blue will need to be grounded, whereas in the automatic connection, those two wires go to the ECU.

by **Yanks0114** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:59 am

Luc wrote:I'm looking at the EBC connection up now, and there is only grounding of ONE wire, the white-black, nothing else. Which other wire you see is grounded? For a manual connection, both the purple and blue-black will need to be grounded, whereas in the automatic connection, those two wires go to the ECU.

I will check when I get home. As a side note, the reason I am 100% sure that its wired as an auto was because a while ago I wanted to put a switch that would allow me to ground the extra lead to make it not cut boost between shifts so when I goto the track I could get the best times possible. I scratched that idea because for the few times a year I goto the track it just wasn't worth it.

by **Flipside909** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:07 pm

I'm not looking to argue, I am genuinely curious to see if you are correct. Logically I'd say it would have boost because who the hell wants a SC that wouldn't boost in 1st gear. I personally have proof because mine is setup as an auto and I have boost.

I don't need to prove myself. Because I know i'm right on this and have several people to back up my claim. Our info is direct from the TRD technicians that have been on this project since the beginning back in 1998. You should have been about 12 or 13 at that time. So far you have 2 sources...i'll be happy to provide you with more. I know you are looking to argue because you keep questioning what I have said about this time and time again? Is that not arguing? :agrue:

Think about it this way...
Why would someone buy a SC that has an MSRP around $3999 when it won't give you boost in first gear. We all know that boost hits around 3800rpm, so that means you won't feel any boost until around 60MPH.

You think about it this way...no one in their right mind would pay MSRP for the S/C. That's why there are message boards and information passed around to help the community out. Your boost logic is wrong from your observations.

In order to hold a gear to the 3500+ RPM range you'd need to press very hard on the throttle. If you were crusing at 30mph you might be in 3rd. The tranny downshifts to 1st until 38-40mph then in second by the time you got to 3800rpm it would be 60mph. What good is that? It would only be useful for highway driving.

You still don't get it. If you really wanted real performance out of the S/C, you shoulda got a manual...or taken your own advice...look at another platform.

If what you say is true about there being no boost in first, why wouldn't it be included in the FAQ on the manual. Look in the install booklet, there is a very detailed instruction set and FAQ. If you look at the auto section it specifically states that you won't have boost for .6 seconds between shifts, but nowhere does it mention that you won't have boost in first gear. Maybe you are confusing the fact that there is no boost between shifts with the entire lack of boost in 1st.

It wasn't included in the manual because the manuals were printed WAY before TRD techs implemented the EBC into the whole kit. Then there were several revisions thereafter through TRD. And as you can see, there are Avalon and Sienna part numbers listed that were later abandoned when it was actually released. I'm not confusing the fact there is no boost between shifts. You really think i'm an idiot to believe that? After all you are only 17 years old and still in HS. You still have a few things to learn about your car. Don't judge by what you think you know since what you know is only common knowledge fed off from these boards.

I'm done with this. Happy boosting in 1st for your "TRD Authorized Installed" S/C w/extra grounded wire. LOL :lol:

by **Luc** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:13 pm

This is taken from the EBC manual, Revision 7, dated 4/10/01, under Section IV - Final Inspection.

12. When data list shows, transmission will be in 1st gear. This is the default selection for beginning transmission ACTIVE TEST.
13. DO NOT START ENGINE. Watch supercharger by-pass actuator, while pressing right arrow key, one time. The actuator will pull back for about 0.6 seconds and then release. Data list will show 2nd gear at bottom of screen.
14. If actuator does not operate, recheck the connections for S1 and S2 at EBC to ECM wiring.

This is using an OBD2 tester.

by **Yanks0114** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:27 pm

Luc wrote:This is taken from the EBC manual, Revision 7, dated 4/10/01, under Section IV - Final Inspection.

12. When data list shows, transmission will be in 1st gear. This is the default selection for beginning transmission ACTIVE TEST.
13. DO NOT START ENGINE. Watch supercharger by-pass actuator, while pressing right arrow key, one time. The actuator will pull back for about 0.6 seconds and then release. Data list will show 2nd gear at bottom of screen.
14. If actuator does not operate, recheck the connections for S1 and S2 at EBC to ECM wiring.

This is using an OBD2 tester.

I have that in my install booklet also. Now if I understand that correctly the by-pass actuator will pull back to stop the boost from 1st to 2nd gear and the release to cause boost to be felt again. Why wouldn't they just have it pulled back for all of 1st gear and stay back until after the shift. Why would they make a point to say that Boost will be stopped for .6 seconds between 1st and second gear. According to what ryan has said above, there is no boost in 1st gear so who the hell cares if it is cut for .6 seconds.

by **happy_aggies** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:37 pm

Take it easy Fella,

I believe Luc was trying to explain IF EBC for Auto is hooked up correctly,
OBD2 will read as such as described in the instruction manual.

SO:

Yanks0114,

U need to verify three things for Others to believe that SC has boost in 1st gear:

1. EBC is hooked up correctly as Auto according to instruction manual.
2. OBD2 will read exactly what the Instruction manual said. (This will double check whether EBC is installed correctly as an Auto)
3. Boost Gauge.

Untill then this argument will not be resolved.
I personally would like to see boost in the 1st gear so Yanks0114,
let me know if I can help you in any way.

Now, lets get back to the topic untill all the steps above has been taken and verified.

Cheers,

HappY_AggieS

by **Luc** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:54 pm

Those inspection steps implies there is no boost between shifts, if I understand correctly. Aside from checking the EBC wiring, the only other real way is to uninstall the hood, then have a passenger look only at the actuator while the car is moving through first. :lol:

Again, we are all left to ourselves to find out, as TRD USA is useless once the product is out of their warehouse.

by **happy_aggies** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:58 pm

Luc,

If OBD can verify there is no boost between the shift,
it implies that the EBC is hooked up correctly.

Thus we took care of proper EBC install.
all we need is a boost gauge to verify. :wink:

by **xXsolaraXx** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:27 pm

AND boost gauge i have: and it always shows boost in first...L8r moe :evilbat:

by **SpikedMantis** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:59 pm

Read the first post by the member named Optimus. He used a boost gauge on his A/T and he says there is NO boost!

http://www.zer0.info/solaraguy/viewtopic.php?t=2433&highlight=supercharger+boost

I'm not sure if his EBC was hooked up correctly but if it's true, this sucks for us auto tranny's.

by **Flipside909** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 10:41 pm

xXsolaraXx wrote:AND boost gauge i have: and it always shows boost in first...L8r moe

Because yours is installed wrong.

Supercharger & Additional Parts

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