Pistons

[capt_cope]

Let me preface this by stating: I'm no mechanic, I'm hardly even a car nut, and everything under this statement is opinion only.

With that out of the way, what, if any, options are there for pistons in a 1mz v6? I know alot of you guys seem to feel that boost is the king of the hill, but has anyone tried pulling off a nice naturally aspirated engine? I'm talking something like 11/1 pistons, if that's even possible. I know from experienceing two seperate (one was an '89 vette bored and stroked by lingenfelter, no turbo, no super, *had* but removed NOS) and the other was a 98 GTS Viper (turbo charged by some big name, but I forgot) Now the vette is sitting at about 500 rwhp, and the viper is closer to 740 rwhp... that vette, with 11/1 pistons and an aluminum flywheel FEELS faster on the gas, I know it's slower, but it can easily keep up with my boss' stock viper.

I know that a solara and a vette are different animals, but shouldn't the same principles apply? Can you even bore and stroke a 1mz? These are questions that burn in my mind, I want to think that you might get more HP out of a finely done engine than a light boost (most of the posts I've read stick between 4-11 psi)

Not trying to be rude, inflamatory or any of that, just looking for some opinions.

[crispone]

^^^ Firstly, I would tend to agree on your "mechanical aptitude"... (NO INSULT INTENDED!!! Just confirming your statement...)

Here's why:

If the described vehicles are or have been in your possession at any time, you are CLEARLY a USER and not so much the "CREATOR" of such...

I say that because in the above (and I believe a previous?) post, your comment(s) have led me to believe you do not quite understand the "mechanics" of what constitutes "high compression", in that you suggest "11/1" (11:1) ratio "pistons", but it is not necessarily the function of a specific piston design to be "11:1" or otherwise "high compression" in and of itself. Compression is a combination of factors, including, but not limited to, the piston choice, (domed, etc...), rod length as related to crank elipse, "squish area", valve timing, lift/overlap, etc, etc.... wherein you can vary a NUMBER of different "variables" to achieve specific compression levels. I would suggest that a normally aspirated motor CAN net notable gains, but not as "easily" as an "inducted" one. The "quickest" path to a compression increase is MILLING THE HEAD, but you have to be aware of your motor design with respect to valve/piston head interference, and under HEAVY milling conditions, TIMING impact, wherein timing gears would need to be VARIABLE and appropriately adjusted to "compensate" for the reduced distance from the crank after the mill job.

Anyway... quite the "pandora's box" of a topic you open with the suggestion of "high compression pistons"... I suspect there are "easier" ways to get the pressure "bump", and take advantage with a good serdi or multi-angle valve job and clean porting and matching job. (Of course, the usual "breathing" issues with respect to intake and exhaust should be addressed... along with fuel delivery and gain adjustments warranted by the "radicality" (HA HA HA!!!) of your mods....


PHEW! Did I just take the time to blab all that out? I'm not even sure what I just said....



-crisp

[orlin03]

Along those lines, anyone who wonders about how to make more power through 'headwork' should pick up the new March copy of Import Tuner magazine... inside there is a very informative 4 page spread entitled "Head Games and Valve Jobs', which should help give anyone with no prior knowledge of engine building a decent idea as to what each of the common terms are and the basics of how they effect engine power and characteristics.

[crispone]

^^^ GREAT suggestion! I'll check that out too!


-crisp

[DatSRBoi]

Your comparing a muscle car to an Import. Increasing compression doesnt mean your going to instantly get power. 3 liter VS what 5+ (How ever big they are). Even if you increase the compression on our cars, Youll still need to add fuel to abuse the motor to make power. From there youll see our block isnt built to handle it. Thast why you dont ever see a supra with 400whp all motor on the street. Its possible but with the money you need to make one, you might as well get that corvette or viper. The only all motor car I know of was a long time ago on a civic with some setup all motor making 500whp + (I think it was 700whp but its been awhile) and it only made 3 runs and the motor was dead gone at the track. It was track run only. Its been too long to remember what its full set up was but it was the most powerful all motor car Ive seen for import in its class.

[woa_its_j3ff]

^^^ GREAT suggestion! I'll check that out too!


-crisp

dont forget the page that comes down vertically

[crispone]

Your comparing a muscle car to an Import. Increasing compression doesnt mean your going to instantly get power. 3 liter VS what 5+ (How ever big they are). Even if you increase the compression on our cars, Youll still need to add fuel to abuse the motor to make power. From there youll see our block isnt built to handle it. Thast why you dont ever see a supra with 400whp all motor on the street. Its possible but with the money you need to make one, you might as well get that corvette or viper. The only all motor car I know of was a long time ago on a civic with some setup all motor making 500whp + (I think it was 700whp but its been awhile) and it only made 3 runs and the motor was dead gone at the track. It was track run only. Its been too long to remember what its full set up was but it was the most powerful all motor car Ive seen for import in its class.

PRECISELY!

Economics. (As well as your point on modern vs "old school" motor design... Newer stuff is ALREADY much more efficient by way of flow/compression/metering etc... BLOWING a motor is nearly always the most bang for buck, along with DISPLACEMENT.... (meaning ORIGINAL BIG DISPLACEMENT, not BORING our motors out... very limited...)

Anyway... Dats is right on with his points. (My Supra may be doing near 400 to the wheels, but it takes 16lbs and ALOT of other STUFF to facilitate that kind of power... and that's MODEST, at best.... well, maybe SOMEWHAT respectable...)

Anyway, I am pretty happy with the modest setup on this Solara. It's just not meant to be powered by much more. I'd say it could handle close to 300 with all the right parts... but you'd be spending BIG BUCKS to generate that kind of power from one of these... and it probably wouldn't LIKE it much if it had it. I'd be the FIRST to boost this thing in a few years if it were possible, however... then again, I'll be OLDER than old by then... and maybe mellow alot MORE...


-crisp

[crispone]

^^^ GREAT suggestion! I'll check that out too!


-crisp

dont forget the page that comes down vertically

...er... afraid of an abstinate agnostical abdicator aloof and astray from his "post"?


Ne'er fear, my young child... this proliferator of profundity will prowel precariously... ever penchant the piece of pie that is his just dessert, the prose of post protracted, due to thee, my personal pride proliferator... aaaaaahhhhhhh........




.....



-crisp

[capt_cope]

Yeah I was just curious, my boss is a big Viper fan, and he's taken me around in his as good as stock vipe (even let me try to drive it... didn't work so hot, I'm used to a '99 sable... auto... nothing but burning tires and screaming boss!) and so you have to realize my only real angle on cars is from the big displacement crowd. I don't know much about anything when it comes to cars, just that compression is all the rage for the vipers and vettes, unless you want to spend the big money for a twin turbo. I think my boss said to get his viper supercharged (or maybe it was a turbo... again I just don't know) would cost him about $20k. And even then I have to sit through a 20 minute lecture about the perils of Turbo lag, the 10 second button of the devil (NOS) and so on and so forth. It seems that with high displacement engines... more displacement, more compression, and a lighter flywheel are the big 3.

And to be completely honest I still haven't figured out why (again no insults intended here, just trying to slowly learn) you guys hop up imports. Solaras...I can understand a little more than civics or eagles, I mean the solara (gen 1 at least) is one hell of a sexy car. But to drop 8-10k on a car, then turn around and drop another 10k (my rough estimates, could be way less, could be way more) to make it pretty fast... why not just spend that $20k on a used vette? You can get a pretty nice vette for $20k, hell if you don't mind the look of C4 vettes you can get those for the same price as a solara. Sure in the long run to soup up a vette costs more, but I don't think anyone will argue that a tricked out vette vs. a tricked out solara isn't a fair fight. What is it that motivates you guys to do all of this?

[crispone]

^^^^ economics and attitude.


Any street "wanna be" with a few K and alot of work can make a little sub-2 liter pull SURPRISING times down a strip, or at least FEEL like a stud with his hissing fart-can and a screamin' vtec wind-up toy. Some are even VIPER KILLERS!!!

How many guys can REALLY play the type of game your boss is into?

I've enjoyed my gen 2 IMMENSELY, and also enjoyed my '89 Supra by WALKING on some late model 'vettes and everything in-between... just because it's pretty stout and LOOKS like a very "basic" Japanese import coupe... a nice little "sleeper", the likes of Jackie Chan's Mitsubishi Turbo in Cannonball Run... a Nippon Nightrider...

Anyway... this "Solara" crowd is on the "classier" front... but still some good, ol' fashioned gear heads in here as well... and a nice little platform for the mild crossover of the two. Best yet, it's a TOYOTA.


Just enjoy it, and US.....


(To HELL with your boss and his penile proxy of performance.... )



-crisp

[Sp33d]

good topic. keep it up guys.

-mark

[capt_cope]

Can't resist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3j9d-FkXVE

But the solara crowd does have a lot more class than your average ricer. I'm just glad I stumbled upon this site, lots of informative people with knowledge that is tough to find elsewhere.


Oh yeah and my favorite quote: "I think he's scared..... HOLY crap"

[crispone]

^^^ Those are the ones that are REALLY rewarding with a VERY STOCK looking early model turbo Supra! They NEVER see what hit them! (Of course, THAT guy might be PACKIN' a little somethin'..... )


(Just for ref.... mine's a mid-twelve second daily driver that just sits under a big oak tree collecting birdshit these days... Too busy to fix a short somewhere...)


-crisp

[DatSRBoi]

Yyou guys hop up imports. Solaras...I can understand a little more than civics or eagles, I mean the solara What is it that motivates you guys to do all of this?

Let me ask you this. Why do men jack off? I mean wouldnt a straight guy like to bang a hot chick more right there and then and go through all the trouble which you know youll enjoy more in the end?? Or how about you just earn 100 dollar. What are the chances youll go and invest it when you know it will benefit you?

Solara is a Solara. We brought the car and just feel like doing what we want with it. Why go get a vette which we clearly know in the long run will benefit when we can just mod the car we drive and know daily as of right now. Not to mention wheres the fun when everyone mods the same POS? I go to car shows and people dont even know what my car is. Thast more fun then driving a typical race car (Not really but you get the point)


(yeah the jacking off part didnt make sense. I just thought I try to be an ass)

[CASTRO]

a nice little "sleeper", the likes of Jackie Chan's Mitsubishi Turbo in Cannonball Run... a Nippon Nightrider...

correction Crisp, I believe its a Subaru Justy. My first car was a 1986 Mitsubishi Colt Turbo (the car you speak of) and got excited when my uncle said it was in the movie Cannonball Run. I bought the movie just for that fact and to my disappointment, was a Subaru all along. Sorry, just brought back memories of my first car. hehe